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Thread: Revisiting an old rumor

  1. #1
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Revisiting an old rumor

    Yes, I know Junior has his 10-5 rights, but let's assume for a minute that he's willing to waive them after the Reds tell him he won't be in CF in 2007. You call up Kenny Williams (CWS) and there's an offer on the table of Junior, cash, & a decent pitching prospect (or Belisle/Claussen/Majewski type) for Freddy Garcia & Brian Anderson. Garcia will be in the last year of his deal in 2007 at 10 Million. Do you do it? What if it was Javier Vazquez? Can the Reds afford to lose a 30 HR bat?
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 10-01-2006 at 01:44 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    White Sox wouldn't make that trade. Regardless if Garcia is in the last year of his contract, they could do better than that. Vasquez wouldn't be an option either.

    There just isn't enough of an upside to Griffey to validate making that trade.

  4. #3
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    Tough call. If I had to pay so much of Griffey's deal that I can't go out on the market and get a power guy for RF then I probably keep Griffey and sign a mid-level pitcher with the money (I know I would probably have to overpay). If Griffey won't play RF, then I make the deal before keeping him in CF. I'd probably flip Garcia for prospects in that case because w/o more power there is no way to compete in 2007. I think they need more power even with Griffey.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-01-2006 at 01:59 PM.

  5. #4
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    White Sox have said that McCarthy will be in the rotation next season. Buerhle has a team option and is coming off a down year, but most people believe it will be picked up. That leaves them:

    Buerhle
    Contreras
    Garland
    Garcia
    Vazquez
    McCarthy

    By taking Buerhle's option, that makes the able (and also need to) trade one of Contreras, Garcia, Vazquez. Contreras is the best of the three and I don't think he'd be shopped. The question is what trades are out there that would give the Sox both a solid, proven, offensive guy (even if he's not the #3 hitter he has been) and a bullpen arm. The Sox would then have a monster middle of the lineup (Konerko, Thome, Dye, Junior) and retain a solid rotation. Bullpen and OF is really their only needs, so unless Williams goes for prospects, it seems like a decent fit.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #5
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    White Sox have said that McCarthy will be in the rotation next season. Buerhle has a team option and is coming off a down year, but most people believe it will be picked up. That leaves them:

    Buerhle
    Contreras
    Garland
    Garcia
    Vazquez
    McCarthy

    By taking Buerhle's option, that makes the able (and also need to) trade one of Contreras, Garcia, Vazquez. Contreras is the best of the three and I don't think he'd be shopped. The question is what trades are out there that would give the Sox both a solid, proven, offensive guy (even if he's not the #3 hitter he has been) and a bullpen arm. The Sox would then have a monster middle of the lineup (Konerko, Thome, Dye, Junior) and retain a solid rotation. Bullpen and OF is really their only needs, so unless Williams goes for prospects, it seems like a decent fit.
    I agree with the premise that the Sox may trade a starter. They may even have interest in Griffey if he could be persuaded to play LF and bat 6th or so (Podsednick moves to CF, but IIRC he isn't highly regarded there). But with the middle of the order you mention Thome, Konerko, and Dye to go with complimentary players like Crede, Pierczynski and Iguchi, I can't see them having interest in him as a CF. They really don't need his bat (which is in decline anyway). The Reds on the other hand really need his power because there suddenly is very little power that can be counted upon in Cincinnati. The Reds would probably have better luck trading Freel and say Majewski and a lower level prospect (Pelland?) for Garcia, which I would do if I were Cincy. Still have to get Griffey to move for this to work, then Deno goes to CF I guess and push for some power at 2B.

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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    I just heard Krivsky on radio say the team's biggest need is to improve defense and avoid unearned runs. My own view is that it's still pitching. I don't think the Reds would think twice if they could trade Griff for pitching/defense.

    I think fans are going to have to get used to a team will less power. That's Krivsky's mantra. Pitching, defense, timely hitting. With a limited budget, more money is going to go to pitching and defense and less to power.

    It sounded to me like Krivsky wants to keep Phillips at second, get a good defensive shortstop, and perhaps have a speedier outfield (he hesitated to answer whether Griff and Dun will be back). If the right deal comes along, this GM won't worry about giving up power.

  8. #7
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I just heard Krivsky on radio say the team's biggest need is to improve defense and avoid unearned runs. My own view is that it's still pitching. I don't think the Reds would think twice if they could trade Griff for pitching/defense.

    I think fans are going to have to get used to a team will less power. That's Krivsky's mantra. Pitching, defense, timely hitting. With a limited budget, more money is going to go to pitching and defense and less to power.

    It sounded to me like Krivsky wants to keep Phillips at second, get a good defensive shortstop, and perhaps have a speedier outfield (he hesitated to answer whether Griff and Dun will be back). If the right deal comes along, this GM won't worry about giving up power.

    Didn't hear this interview, but I agree that the team needs more defense. I just want to get a good defender who can hit. When I look at the list of free agent SS, the only guy I like is Lugo. I fear Castro at SS in 2007.

  9. #8
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Didn't hear this interview, but I agree that the team needs more defense. I just want to get a good defender who can hit. When I look at the list of free agent SS, the only guy I like is Lugo. I fear Castro at SS in 2007.
    When I look at all free agents I fear us signing one of them. There isn't much out there that I want or that I think that we have a shot at getting. Trades will be what Krivs does over this winter to try and improve the team OR players that are released before going to arbitration.

    There is going to be a huge amount of money spent this offseason. It wouldn't surprise me to see this be the wildest ever. A lot of teams have a lot of money...
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  10. #9
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    Didn't they supposedly offer Garland for him early in the season?

    Would anyone do that deal now?

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
    Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
    Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13
    University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12
    Cincinnati Bengals - None
    Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

  11. #10
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    When I look at all free agents I fear us signing one of them. There isn't much out there that I want or that I think that we have a shot at getting. Trades will be what Krivs does over this winter to try and improve the team OR players that are released before going to arbitration.

    There is going to be a huge amount of money spent this offseason. It wouldn't surprise me to see this be the wildest ever. A lot of teams have a lot of money...
    I tend to agree that this is a bad and probably overpriced crop. They'll surely cost the Reds more than a team with a better reputation. The big problem is that the Reds can't really trade for something w/o making a hole somewhere else.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-02-2006 at 08:56 PM.

  12. #11
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    Re: Revisiting an old rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I just heard Krivsky on radio say the team's biggest need is to improve defense and avoid unearned runs. My own view is that it's still pitching. I don't think the Reds would think twice if they could trade Griff for pitching/defense.

    I think fans are going to have to get used to a team will less power. That's Krivsky's mantra. Pitching, defense, timely hitting. With a limited budget, more money is going to go to pitching and defense and less to power.

    It sounded to me like Krivsky wants to keep Phillips at second, get a good defensive shortstop, and perhaps have a speedier outfield (he hesitated to answer whether Griff and Dun will be back). If the right deal comes along, this GM won't worry about giving up power.

    And by timely hitting, Wayne actually means scrappy veteran types. Great.
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.


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