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Thread: Derek Jeter, MVP?

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Derek Jeter, MVP?

    So, in all likelihood, Jeter is going to win the AL MVP this year. It's probably the 2nd best season of his sure-fire HoF career. Yet, another AL SS put up very similar numbers and gets ZERO pub.

    Jeter: .344/.414/.482, 111 R, 97 RBI, 34 SB, 975 FLD%, 4.14 RF, .810 ZR
    SS X: .320/.400/.519, 100 R, 85 RBI, 20 SB, 956 FLD%, 4.42 RF, .832 ZR

    Jeter had a few more AB, mostly because of the ridiculous lineup he hits in. That also expains his lead in runs and rbi. He was a bit better on the basepaths, but clearly covers much less ground at SS, if perhaps a bit more reliable with the balls he does get to. However, that's not really the point. It's that Jeter is treated like he walks on water, while other great players get no attention.

    If the Tigers beat the Yankees, they surely will be able to thank one of the best SS in baseball, Carlos Guillen. Go Tigers!

    Edit -- For clarification, I should've titled this thread "Carlos Guillen is a good player". I don't care about whether or not Jeter wins the MVP. That wasn't really the point...
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 10-07-2006 at 09:21 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    Jeter would have my vote for AL MVP, if I had a vote.
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    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    I would have given it to Santana, because he's really the only AL player to totally separate himself from the pack at what he does. Lots of players had great seasons in all kinds of ways, but he was the only one who clearly and absolutely distinguished himself as the best overall at what he does.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    There was text in the post, not just a title. Just wanted to make sure you guys noticed....
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    Hafner was the best player in the AL this year. But after seeing those marks, I'd say Guillen deserves it as much as Jeter.

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    Member penantboundreds's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    SS X has worse stats in just about every category, don't hate for hate sakes.....when SS X plays in NY where he gets coverage (why they make more money) then he will get justification on being good but what does that have to do with Jeter and MVP...why compare to Jeter at all? He doesn't have the stats to be an MVP over anyone, so why mention his name and MVP in the same sentence? now should he get more recognition sure, but Jeter and MVP don't belong in the same sentence with Carlos Guillen
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  8. #7
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    He has a higher OPS and is a superior fielder despite the errors. Put him in a lineup with 6 other MVPs, and he'd have Jeter's counting stats too. I have no problem with asserting Jeter as a great player. I'm not "hating" on Jeter. He's a HOF player and probably did have the better overall year. But suggesting that his line is vastly superior and that Guillen doesn't belong in the same setence is just ignoring the numbers altogether.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    My MVP would be Joe Mauer, hands down. The last time a catcher won a batting title, our country was in the throes of WWII (Ernie Lombardi in 1942). I can't believe this hasn't gotten more pub. And I'm appalled that Mauer isn't even the top MVP candidate from his own team.

    It's not like he loaded up ABs as a DH either; he only got 64 non-catching ABs.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...ting&year=2006

    Just to put the nail in the coffin, none of the great catchers below have ever won a batting title:

    Piazza
    Pudge
    Bench
    Yogi Berra
    Mickey Cochrane
    Bill Dickey
    Gabby Hartnett

    These are some of the best hitting catchers of all time, and Mauer accomplished something that they never did (at age 23, no less).
    Last edited by D-Man; 10-08-2006 at 10:50 PM.

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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    My vote would go to Justin Morneau (sp?)...

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    Jeter leading the AL in winshares is just something you can't ignore. I think he's as overrated as they come, but leading your league in winshares is a good indicator of having a good year, or so someone told me.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    I'd have voted for Jeter. Once again though, think the excellence of Vlad Guerrero has been overlooked. He carries his team like no one else in baseball.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Jeter leading the AL in winshares is just something you can't ignore. I think he's as overrated as they come, but leading your league in winshares is a good indicator of having a good year, or so someone told me.
    Win shares is a good compromise between the "best player", "most valuable", "defense?", and "best player on a good team" camps -- even the "can pitcher's be the most valuable player" camp. It factors in raw performance, team performance, and performance relative to your teammates. I wasn't aware that Jeter led the AL, but I think that goes in his favor for sure.

    (yes, even I will abandon my original point for the sake of conversation)

    BTW, Pujols had 39 on a mediocre Cardinals team while missing 3 weeks. How amazing is that?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Win shares is a good compromise between the "best player", "most valuable", "defense?", and "best player on a good team" camps -- even the "can pitcher's be the most valuable player" camp. It factors in raw performance, team performance, and performance relative to your teammates. I wasn't aware that Jeter led the AL, but I think that goes in his favor for sure.

    (yes, even I will abandon my original point for the sake of conversation)

    BTW, Pujols had 39 on a mediocre Cardinals team while missing 3 weeks. How amazing is that?
    My question to the RedsZone faithful about the MVP award is this:

    Should the MVP be the best overall season, or is the MVP the 1 player who helps his team the most?

    Best overall season this year unfortunately was Jeter. Player that meant the most to his team, IMO was Travis Hafner.

  15. #14
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    If I had a vote for MVP, I would give my first place vote to Justin Morneau. .321, 34 HR, 130 RBI on a team that went to the playoffs. My top 5 would probably go something like Morneau, Jeter, Dye, Vlad, Mauer.

  16. #15
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Derek Jeter, MVP?

    I'd say Mauer. Getting that kind of production from a CATCHER (and a good one, too) is very rare and extremely valuable.
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