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Thread: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

  1. #1
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    Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    There's been a large amount of change in the organization.

    Made the point in another post that you could make the case they don't have 1 position solidified and figured out.

    When there's this much change without and organizational philosophy on how to solve problems ...bad things can happen.

    1. It makes it tough to analyze what you really got. Your sample sizes are small and people aren't comfortable in their changing positions. (there's a fair amount of data that supports the idea that player performance decreases when they change positions).

    2. No one in the organization knows how to offer solutions because there is no organiztional idea on how to solve them.

    3. There's so much chaos -that folks don't know where to start. At times an organization will pay 3 times more than something is worth -just to have some peace of mine...a stake in the ground on which to build.

    With this much chaos --bad things can happen quick.

    Solidify some Wayne.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    I agree. All I heard all season was how Wayne was laying the groundwork, clearing out space, blowing it up, etc.

    I feel like he bought a fixer-upper and brought over some posters and inflatable furniture and called it restored. It's totally random, desperate, and downright weird how messed up this roster/coaching staff/organization is right now. It's almost as though he's done nothing at all but make it harder on himself to make deals this offseason.

    I've asked a bunch of people smarter than I am to tell me what they see in Wayne's method, and I still don't see what they're seeing.

  4. #3
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    I can neither agree or disagree as I am still trying to figure out what exactly was said.

  5. #4
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    "Blow it up Wayne, and make it yours" - rfs62

    Out of chaos came order.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I can neither agree or disagree as I am still trying to figure out what exactly was said.
    Without method and without plan, there is no way to effectively execute. Certainties breed more certainties. Uncertainties breed kneejerk adjustments. It's a pretty macro observation, but it was well worth saying.

    What's troubling is that Wayne's a posteriori posturing about "cutting down on strikeouts" seems like so much covering his ass for dumping Kearns and Lopez for nothing. If he hates strikeouts so much, why did he give Dunn his expensive contract? Why did he acquire Phillips? If he values defense so much, why is Griffey still playing center? Dunn still playing left? Aurilia playing short? Ross playing catcher?

    Say one thing; do another.

  7. #6
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Without method and without plan, there is no way to effectively execute. Certainties breed more certainties. Uncertainties breed kneejerk adjustments. It's a pretty macro observation, but it was well worth saying.

    What's troubling is that Wayne's a posteriori posturing about "cutting down on strikeouts" seems like so much covering his ass for dumping Kearns and Lopez for nothing. If he hates strikeouts so much, why did he give Dunn his expensive contract? Why did he acquire Phillips? If he values defense so much, why is Griffey still playing center? Dunn still playing left? Aurilia playing short? Ross playing catcher?

    Say one thing; do another.
    Krivsky will go a long way toward self-definition this offseason. Certainly the Arroyo and Phillips moves made him look like a genius because both were cases of the guy going out and getting exactly what the team needs. The Lopez/Kearns trade was a disaster, but perhaps the silver lining is that it fits in with Arroyo and Phillips as part of an effort to rebuild the team up the middle. If Krivsky adds meaningful pitching talent this offseason, addresses the CF situation and comes up with a quality SS then I'd say he's a man with a plan. Obviously he can't afford another mistake like the deadline disaster, but that would address the pitching and defense in a direct fashion.

    Yet if the plan is built around collecting guys with the undefinable quality of "knows how to play the game" then we're in for a real long drip into the abyss. The Twins never were able to find that kind of guy. What they've done is develop guys who play the game the way they want it played. That's a fine long term goal, define what Reds baseball should look like and have all the kids in the system versed in it. Yet Krivsky needs to be more pragmatic in the short term.
    Last edited by M2; 10-15-2006 at 01:06 PM.
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  8. #7
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    "Blow it up Wayne, and make it yours" - rfs62

    Out of chaos came order.
    I used that brilliant quote from RFS62 as my signature from the first time I heard it. After the Narron extension and the trade, I dropped it. Krivsky is so confusing. He goes out and makes moves like getting Arroyo and Phillips, but...well, the confusing things have all been mentioned except the pouring in of pitchers this summer who did not do well because they were done when they were acquired. Who can rationalize Cormier, Mays, or Franklin? Who can rationalize keeping three catchers when you have a guy who just signed a gargantuan contract just months before sitting on the bench? Madness, i say.

    Everyone says this winter we'll see the plan. All I've seen so far is a lot of luck combined with a lot of throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it works. Along with the weeding out of a lot of offense in return for middle relief pitching. The pitching was needed, but oh the cost. If Wayne were to indeed blow it up and make it his, I imagine RedsZone would be up in arms.

    I look forward to the plan but shake in fear at the results of it.
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    There are some other factors working toward this organization. Things i don't they see.

    1. The plexiglass principle is working against them.
    -they finished poorly in the 2nd half.
    -their pythag. record was lower than real record.
    -the AAA team is not real good.
    -team age is on the high side.

    2. I doubt they can adjst for park factor in any real substantial way. This year the park played at 107/108 or 1036 depending on which formula you use. What's most important is how the PF relates in terms relative to other parks. By my calculations the Reds played in the 4th most offensive environment in the mlb. That really impacts the way in which you review and analyze your team. This is a bad hitting team and i could see it getting worse by this time next year. Do they know that?

    It really bothers me that not one position has been settled. He had all year to get something stable and build on that.

  10. #9
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    I think M2 nailed this. I'm nervously waiting to see what the offseason brings.

  11. #10
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe View Post
    I think M2 nailed this. I'm nervously waiting to see what the offseason brings.
    He may turn this thing around in the offseason. I don't know. But he's made the job a lot harder on himself over the course of the season by not dumping a bunch of dead weight or making the tough decisions that lead to stability.

  12. #11
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I look forward to the plan but shake in fear at the results of it.


    Yeah, but doesn't that beat the collective snore Reds fans have produced during DanO's reign?

    I don't think it's going to be boring this offseason.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  13. #12
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Yeah, but doesn't that beat the collective snore Reds fans have produced during DanO's reign?

    I don't think it's going to be boring this offseason.
    Being held at gunpoint isn't boring either. Doesn't mean I like the experience.

    Krivsky has been working during the season so its a little unfair to conclude anything, but all of his acquisitions so far have been for guys who were unwanted. Even his good ones. He's traded some major pieces of the team he inherited and only received unwanted pieces back. Seems like he should have been able to get a few guys his trading partners valued a little. Bray may be the closest to that.

    Scares me about making major moves.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-15-2006 at 10:51 PM.

  14. #13
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    I don't see it. He's had 8 months and there are many more questions than answers....that's not a sign of competence.

  15. #14
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    I'm scared of what Wayne will do with this team. I have not been impressed since the acquisitions of Ross, BA and Phillips. I have a feeling that there will be some unhappy campers on RedsZone this winter.


  16. #15
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    Re: Chaos and how to lose 105 games.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Yeah, but doesn't that beat the collective snore Reds fans have produced during DanO's reign?

    I don't think it's going to be boring this offseason.
    ...and that should keep this board buzzing...let the fun begin.
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