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Thread: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

  1. #136
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Exactly. I don't see a correlation between playing well and having a referee's call overtly influence the outcome of a game. Which is what I qualified way back in my first post on the topic.

    By that logic, if the Bengals led by 6 points and had played well, even though they only led by 6 points, then they could complain about the call at that point in the game, which is simply ludicrous.

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  3. #137
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRightHander View Post
    Ok, so they didn't play well. Heck, you could argue that they didn't play well enough to deserve to win, but that's not the point. They played well enough to win the game if it had been called correctly. They might have had a shutout if it had been called correctly, and if that had happened what would we be saying about a 13-0 win?
    "Called correctly" swings both ways. I'll give you the roughing-the-passer call back, but you have to give me about 4 or 5 holding penalties on Simeon Rice throughout the game that didn't draw a flag. See where the final score ends up if some Bengals scoring drives get flagged out of existence or if Palmer is looking at 3rd and 15 a few extra times during the game. You assume a correctly called game ends up 13-0 Bengals, but you simply assume a correctly called game merely negates the two penalties that you disagree with.

    And I think "Played well enough to win" is a generous assessment of the Bengals performance -- in my mind, neither team really played particularly well. A better team beats the Bengals by two scores in a game like that.

    I simply go back to my original point (which Bengals fans I've talked to seem to have inexplicably difficult time dealing with): It was a crap call, but crap calls/no-calls happen every week in the NFL -- "elite" teams find a way to win. I guarantee you that at least 1 time before this season ends the Bengals will be on the benefitting end of a similar situation.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 10-19-2006 at 08:53 PM.
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  4. #138
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    "Called correctly" swings both ways. I'll give you the roughing-the-passer call back, but you have to give me about 4 or 5 holding penalties on Simeon Rice throughout the game that didn't draw a flag. See where the final score ends up if some Bengals scoring drives get flagged out of existence or if Palmer is looking at 3rd and 15 a few extra times during the game. You assume a correctly called game ends up 13-0 Bengals, but you simply assume a correctly called game merely negates the two penalties that you disagree with.

    And I think "Played well enough to win" is a generous assessment of the Bengals performance -- in my mind, neither team really played particularly well. A better team beats the Bengals by two scores in a game like that.

    I simply go back to my original point (which Bengals fans I've talked to seem to have inexplicably difficult time dealing with): It was a crap call, but crap calls/no-calls happen every week in the NFL -- "elite" teams find a way to win. I guarantee you that at least 1 time before this season ends the Bengals will be on the benefitting end of a similar situation.
    Holding calls are missed all the time. There is holding on just about every play in a football game. I'm sure Simeon Rice could commisserate with Robert Geathers and Justin Smith on that note. Missing a holding call isn't going to have much impact on the game because it occurs much more often and players deal with it all the time. I would concede that the bogus roughing-the-passer call, had it happened earlier in the game, should have little impact on the outcome. The earlier such a call happens, the more time the defense has to adjust and deal accordingly. The problem is that, when such a bad call happens on the last drive, it makes it very difficult for the defense to adjust because they have no idea whether they'll get flagged the next time they touch the quarterback. So then they play a little more tentative on D and it makes it easier for the offense to drive against them.

    I think it would be interesting to see a study of bad officiating calls in close games to see if there is any correlation between the point in the game when the bad call happens, which team benefited from the call, and whether that call had any effect on the outcome of the game. My theory would be that it takes at least till the next drive for most teams to recover from a blantant bad call.
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  5. #139
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    It's five days later and this topic is ongoing.



    BTW - the Panthers are in town this week.

  6. #140
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    "Called correctly" swings both ways. I'll give you the roughing-the-passer call back, but you have to give me about 4 or 5 holding penalties on Simeon Rice throughout the game that didn't draw a flag. See where the final score ends up if some Bengals scoring drives get flagged out of existence or if Palmer is looking at 3rd and 15 a few extra times during the game. You assume a correctly called game ends up 13-0 Bengals, but you simply assume a correctly called game merely negates the two penalties that you disagree with.

    And I think "Played well enough to win" is a generous assessment of the Bengals performance -- in my mind, neither team really played particularly well. A better team beats the Bengals by two scores in a game like that.

    I simply go back to my original point (which Bengals fans I've talked to seem to have inexplicably difficult time dealing with): It was a crap call, but crap calls/no-calls happen every week in the NFL -- "elite" teams find a way to win. I guarantee you that at least 1 time before this season ends the Bengals will be on the benefitting end of a similar situation.
    The Indy Colts were an "elite" team, benefitted from a BS call and a fumble on the 1 yard line and still lost the AFC Championship Game. So, other than repeating the point to seek validity, I'm not sure what "'elite' teams find a way means, exactly.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds View Post
    It's five days later and this topic is ongoing.



    BTW - the Panthers are in town this week.
    That's what you get in a sport that only plays once a week, which has good and bad aspects.

  8. #142
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    The Indy Colts were an "elite" team, benefitted from a BS call and a fumble on the 1 yard line and still lost the AFC Championship Game. So, other than repeating the point to seek validity, I'm not sure what "'elite' teams find a way means, exactly.
    Good teams find a way to win, bad teams find a way to lose. It's a sports cliche, but one that seems to prove itself out more often than not. You need look no further than the Chicago Bears and the Arizona Cardinals this past Monday.
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  9. #143
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Good teams find a way to win, bad teams find a way to lose. It's a sports cliche, but one that seems to prove itself out more often than not. You need look no further than the Chicago Bears and the Arizona Cardinals this past Monday.
    Think through that for a minute. Of course it works its way out. Good teams are considered so because they win, so adding "finding a way" is redundant. The opposite is true for bad teams. Which, in the context of this discussion, has no bearing on the events that transpired because a bad team (Buccaneers) "found a way" to win while a good team (Bengals) "found a way" to lose. That is just so much nonsense.

  10. #144
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Which, in the context of this discussion, has no bearing on the events that transpired because a bad team (Buccaneers) "found a way" to win while a good team (Bengals) "found a way" to lose. That is just so much nonsense.
    That conclusion presumes that the Bengals are, in fact, a good football team... From what I've seen of them, I'd place them in the upper-middle of the league, but certainly not with the best squads in the NFL (Indy, New England, Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, Carolina and San Diego)
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 10-20-2006 at 09:12 PM.
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  11. #145
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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    That conclusion presumes that the Bengals are, in fact, a good football team... From what I've seen of them, I'd place them in the upper-middle of the league, but certainly not with the best squads in the NFL (Indy, New England, Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, Carolina and San Diego)
    That the Bucs are bad is indisputable, though Amazing what a few officials' calls in their favor can do to get a bad team a W, eh?

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    Re: Ready for some Bengals football!! Bengals v. Bucs -- October 15, 2006

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