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Thread: Fall Classic?

  1. #1
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Fall Classic?

    Gotta wonder if the ultra conservatives will rise up. This year we have a Wild Card team in the AL against a team that won 83 Games in the NL. This is the very scenario the traditionalists feared when lobbying against multiple divisions and wild cards. The 162 game season, the last bastion of proving it over the long haul in sports, has been compromised.

    I personally see the point but am somewhat conflicted on the issue. I think the best teams over 162 games should be rewarded, but I also like the fact that the season stays interesting so much longer for most teams. Bud has been contemplating making it harder on wild card teams or going to 4 divisions in each league and eliminating the wild card altogether. I wonder if this will push him to make changes before next year.

    I always thought I would come down on the side of fewer play-off teams and preserving the season, but with the imbalance of finances in the game, eliminating the wild card means a lot of fans start the year with no hope. As a small market lifer, I hope there is no knee jerk reaction.

    This year is just a strange year. It beats 1994.

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    7 games for every playoff series would help IMO.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  4. #3
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    There have been seasons back in the old division set up where the second place team in one division was significantly better than the other division winner. This is the flipside to that coin. I think you are right that it keeps more teams in it. And remember, until this season's end, Detroit was the division leader. True, they are the wildcard, but it doesn't feel like they are.

    I think we've got a match up of very smart, competitive managers and two teams that are an interesting mix. I hate to say it, but there's some seriously good karma going on for the Redbirds. I don't expect them to get mauled by the Tigers. And, yes, it does beat 1994!

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    This means absolutely nothing as far as the 2006 World Series goes, but the previous Cardinal-Tiger World Series meetings have been classic seven game battles.
    In 1934,the Gas House Gang of the Dean bothers, Frankie Frisch, Pepper Martin, Joe Medwick, Leo Durocher and Dazzy Vance defeated the Hank Greenberg-Mickey Cochrane-Charlie Gehringer-Goose Goslin Tigers in seven games, with Dizzy and Paul Dean each winning two games for the Redbirds. In game seven, a Cardinal 11-0 rout, leftfielder Ducky Medwick had to leave the field to avoid near-rioting Tiger fans. St. Louis rallied from a two games to three deficit to win the final two games, in Detroit. That World Series featured at least 9 future Hall of Famers: Dizzy Dean, Frisch, Medwick, Durocher, Vance, Greenberg, Cochrane, Gehringer and Goslin.
    Thirty-four years later, the Cardinals were heavy favorites to win their second straight World Series in 1968. Bob Gibson, fresh off a 22-9 season when he had a 1.12 ERA, outdueled 31 game winner Denny McLain of Detriot in two games, 4-0 and 10-1, but the Tigers Mickey Lolich won three games in the Series, including a 4-1 victory over Gibson in game seven as the Tigers rallied to win the final three games of the Series. Lolich pitched three complete game wins, winning game seven on only two days rest. Future Hall of Famers in that Series were Gibson, Lou Brock, Orlando Cepeda and Steve Carlton with St. Louis and Al Kaline and Ed Mathews with Detroit.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    That World Series featured at least 9 future Hall of Famers: Dizzy Dean, Frisch, Medwick, Durocher, Vance, Greenberg, Cochrane, Gehringer and Goslin.
    I did a little more digging - the Cards also had Jesse Haines and Burleigh Grimes, both also Hall of Famers, making a total of 11 player. Note: Grimes was released by the Cards in May that year, so he didn't actually appear in the World Series.

  7. #6
    Baseball card addict MrCinatit's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    In the regular season, the Cardinals won one more game than the NL Champion 1973 New York Mets.
    This is not a new argument - and to me, it really means nothing. I kind of like seeing an occassional underdog type team make it to the big show. Though the series would have been a lot different had the Mets had Martinez and Hernandez.

  8. #7
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I did a little more digging - the Cards also had Jesse Haines and Burleigh Grimes, both also Hall of Famers, making a total of 11 player. Note: Grimes was released by the Cards in May that year, so he didn't actually appear in the World Series.
    Good points. I could have listed 1968 Cardinals manager Red Schoendienst as a future Hall of Famer. He made the HOF for his accomplishments as a player, not as a manager, but then I listed Leo Durocher as a future Hall of Famer on the 1934 Cardinals. Leo was a player in 1934, but he made the HOF as a manager, not as a player.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I did a little more digging - the Cards also had Jesse Haines and Burleigh Grimes, both also Hall of Famers, making a total of 11 player. Note: Grimes was released by the Cards in May that year, so he didn't actually appear in the World Series.
    For Dayton residents... Hall-of-Famer Jesse Haines was born in Clayton, OH (where Northmont HS is) and lived most of his life in Phillipsburg, OH (small town w/ 1 stoplight located around Clayton, Brookville & Englewood).
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Fall Classic?

    Get rid of the Marlins, Rockies,D-Backs, and D-Rays. Put the Brewers back in the AL. Two divisions in each league. Not only does this get rid of the Wild card, It gets rid of 20 starting pitchers that don't deserve to be in the majors and at least 36 relievers.
    Then raise the pitcher's mound. Think of the pitching we would see with these changes.
    This would be a start in making things right.
    Next, get rid of the DH. Make the pitchers hit.
    Then if you really want to make me happy scrap free agency.

  11. #10
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Gotta wonder if the ultra conservatives will rise up. This year we have a Wild Card team in the AL against a team that won 83 Games in the NL. This is the very scenario the traditionalists feared when lobbying against multiple divisions and wild cards. The 162 game season, the last bastion of proving it over the long haul in sports, has been compromised.
    It doesn't really bother me. As a small market fan... the more teams in the playoffs, the better. Gives the team I love a better chance to get there.

    The last time the Cards were in the Fall Classic they dominated the NL with a 105-57 record. Then they got their butts handed to them by the Red Sox in a 4-game sweep (a real yawner for those who enjoy an interesting WS). Surely (maybe?) they can give the baseball lovers of the world a better WS with their 83-78 team against the Tigers.

    Anything is better than the top-2 spending teams playing each other. Especially with the way team salaries are so skewed....

    Cards = 7th highest in NL ; 11th highest in MLB.
    Tigers = 6th highest in AL ; 14th highest in MLB.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  12. #11
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Bud has been contemplating making it harder on wild card teams or going to 4 divisions in each league and eliminating the wild card altogether. I wonder if this will push him to make changes before next year.
    How on earth would he hope to divide the 14 AL teams into four divisions? And I'd better not hear that he wants to keep three AL divisions while going with four NL divisions. That would mean that the AL has a wildcard while the NL would not. At that point, they might as well consider AL baseball and NL baseball to be two completely different sports, scrap the idea of a World Series and interleague play, and declare two professional baseball champions each year.

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  13. #12
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    Get rid of the Marlins, Rockies,D-Backs, and D-Rays.
    How about getting rid of the Pirates, Reds and Indians instead?

    You just discounted the whole SW region and FLA, there are actually people that live outside of the original geographic alignment of major league baseball, maybe we should think of them as well?

  14. #13
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    [QUOTE=fourrunhomer;1181901]Get rid of the Marlins, Rockies,D-Backs, and D-Rays. QUOTE]

    Imagine the team that could be made from the young guys on these teams.

    SP
    Webb
    Kazmir
    Willis
    A. Sanchez
    Francis

    C Navarro
    1 C. Jackson, Stokes
    2 Uggla
    3 Cabrerra, Atkins
    ss H. Ramirez, S. Drew, Upton

    lf Crawford, Holliday
    cf Baldelli, Young
    rf D. Young, Hermidia, Gomes

    My apologies to all the others left off including all those other Florida pitchers, Johnson etc.
    Last edited by klw; 10-20-2006 at 01:29 PM.

  15. #14
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    I'm not saying I'm in favor of changes, but there has been a group of hardcore traditionalists pushing for no wild card and fewer teams in the play-offs (heck, I agree to a point, but I think the current system is the lesser of two evils), I would think they would use this post-season as evidence to spur Bud to change.

    As for Bud, he has a history of reacting to outside pressure. All Star game ends in a tie - changes. Steroids in front of congress - changes. Contraction talk and pressure to avoid it - changes. If the hardcore people raise enough support to apply some pressure, will Bud make a change?

    He was already thinking about it.

  16. #15
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    Re: Fall Classic?

    [QUOTE=klw;1182021]
    Quote Originally Posted by fourrunhomer View Post
    Get rid of the Marlins, Rockies,D-Backs, and D-Rays. QUOTE]

    Imagine the team that could be made from the young guys on these teams.

    SP
    Webb
    Kazmir
    Willis
    A. Sanchez
    Francis

    C Navarro
    1 C. Jackson, Stokes
    2 Uggla
    3 Cabrerra, Atkins
    ss H. Ramirez, S. Drew, Upton

    lf Crawford, Holliday
    cf Baldelli, Young
    rf D. Young, Hermidia, Gomes

    My apologies to all the others left off including all those other Florida pitchers, Johnson etc.



    Think of the increased competiveness within the league. And we would have teams looking for a 5th starter instead of a 3rd, 4th, and 5th starter.


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