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Thread: UC basketball vs. UC football

  1. #76
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    This inferiority complex bothers the hell out of me. It's a "woe is me, I'll never be as great as THE Ohio State University or Notre Dame, so why should I even try" song and dance that is used as an excuse. For teams not in a BCS conference (like my own whining alma mater, Tulane), the song and dance is "we're not in a BCS conference, how can we compete?" Well, now even for teams in a BCS conference the song and dance is "we're not a traditional football powerhouse, how can we compete?"

    Don't have a 100,000 seat stadium? Neither do the Oregon Ducks, but they somehow manage to make Autzen Stadium the loudest place on the planet once a week in the fall. Don't have a storied football tradition? Neither did the Virginia Tech Hokies, but they somehow managed to make it to a national title game and carve out a nice program for themselves with a hot young recruit named Michael Vick.

    It takes alumni support and a commitment from the university to playing winning football. Winning puts you in big TV games, gets you into big bowl games, and into the homes of top recruits. Alumni support sells your stadium out and gets people excited about your product. UC could do both -- they could go out this week and find themselves a top-flight coach, pay him what he's worth and then go aggressively sell the football program to their alumni base. Lean on the big time alums to pony up for season tickets and make UC football the place for Cincinnatians to be seen on the weekends.

    Or -- just roll over and die for the traditional powerhouses. That's what they want, anyway: to find a way to remind you that no matter what you do, what conference you join, you're still on the outside looking in compared to them. They belong in the big game, not you. They deserve the top talent each year, not you. If I were a UC alum, I know I'd be crowing loudly for the former.
    Virginia Tech is one of the only games in town. Not much in terms of pro teams and Virginia was pretty average for years. UC football is about fifth in line at this point. Add in no tradition and it's a bad mix.
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  3. #77
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    There is very little anger and resentment. That tells me that people don't care that much about the program.
    Head over to any of the UC boards like BCI. There's PLENTY of anger and resentment right now. Granted, the folks there are in the small minority of hardcore supporters. But the fact remains, there are people out there who feel used, abused and want to punch Dantanio in the face if given the chance. Especially since UC put an offer on the table to match the financial terms of MSU.
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  4. #78
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Head over to any of the UC boards like BCI. There's PLENTY of anger and resentment right now. Granted, the folks there are in the small minority of hardcore supporters. But the fact remains, there are people out there who feel used, abused and want to punch Dantanio in the face if given the chance. Especially since UC put an offer on the table to match the financial terms of MSU.
    Then they are naive, IMO. Michigan State and UC aren't even close on the college football spectrum.

    He had a history at Michigan State and he's going to get fan support. It's just an obvious better job.
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Then they are naive, IMO. Michigan State and UC aren't even close on the college football spectrum.

    He had a history at Michigan State and he's going to get fan support. It's just an obvious better job.
    If n better job is finishing 5-7 every year and 5-6th in the Big Ten, then I am sorely overestimating this 7-5 team that played the 2nd toughest schedule in the country. Is the Big East not sending at least one team (possibly two teams) to a BCS game this year? John L. Smith was supposedly the savior of that program. He couldn't last a handful of seasons in East Lansing. That program has been more of a revolving door for coaches than UC.

    You are a UC grad. It's people like you that want to write off the program before they are given a chance to begin. Ever stop and think that it's your kind of attitude towards the program that allows these things to happen? Sure, complain about the lack of support all the while you refuse to give your support. Your defeatist attitude disgusts me.

    By the way, if you want to support a man who told his team two weeks ago he was staying, then allowed them to find out by watching it on Sportscenter, by all means go ahead.....

    Dantonio refused comment until after speaking to his players and had not returned a phone call at press time.
    “It makes you feel (resentful) knowing that Cincinnati matched the offer and he still chose to leave,” said senior safety Dominic Ross, a team captain. “But it’s a business. We tend to forget that because we build such close relationships with the coaches, but it’s their job. We feel like we’re out there playing football with our friends, but it is a job for them and these things happen.”
    UC junior linebacker Anthony Williams said “about half the team” gathered in a UC dorm at 2 a.m. Monday morning to watch ESPN, which had reported Dantonio’s departure.
    “Finding out like that is what hurts, turning on ESPN and seeing Coach Dantonio was going to Michigan State,” Daniels said.“He addressed it two weeks ago. It happened right after we got two big wins. It makes us think if we would have lost, maybe he’d still be at Cincinnati.” (from C. Trent's Cincy Post blog)
    Last edited by paintmered; 11-27-2006 at 10:31 PM. Reason: I really should proofread my rants before posting them....
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Then they are naive, IMO. Michigan State and UC aren't even close on the college football spectrum.

    He had a history at Michigan State and he's going to get fan support. It's just an obvious better job.
    I wouldn't say they (we) are naive, I'd say we feel betrayed since Dantonio said numerous times that he's not interested in any other jobs, and he's committed to staying at UC and building the program. I realize that there's more fan support and more money at Michigan State, but don't say you have no interest in other jobs if you do. That's what most fans are mad about, that he said one thing and did another. I talked to a couple of the players today and they are really mad about this also, even more than the fans.

    Whoever said the fans don't really care about this you're wrong. If you listened to 1530 today, or if you visit the www.ncaabbs.com or BCI boards you'll see how the fans feel. I realize that fan support for UC football is not good, but I was very excited about the direction it was going with the success this season. Fans were starting to take notice, and recruits were as well. As a fan that has waited for years for UC football to "make it" I'm dissapointed because I feel like we came so close, and now the program takes a huge punch in the gut with Dantonio leaving.

  7. #81
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    If an better job is finishing 5-7 every year and 5-6th in the Big Ten, then I am sorely overestimating this 7-5 team that played the 2nd toughest schedule in the country. Is the Big East not sending at one team (possibly two teams) to a BCS game this year? John L. Smith was supposedly the savior of that program. He couldn't last a handful of seasons in East Lansing. That program has been more of a revolving door for coaches than UC.

    You are a UC grad. It's people like you that want to write off the program before they are given a chance to begin. Ever stop and think that it's your kind of attitude towards the program that allows these things to happen? Sure, complain about the lack of support all the while you refuse to give your support. Your defeatist attitude disgusts me.

    By the way, if you want to support a man who told his team two weeks ago he was staying, then allowed them to find out by watching it on Sportscenter, by all means go ahead.....
    I just think it's realistic. UC just doesn't have the tradition or the fan support to compete with Michigan State. You can't just use one year and justify that as a reason someone wouldn't go home.

    I don't think I'm being hateful or overly cynical in saying these things. I bet 9 out of ten unbiased observers would agree about Michigan State being a better job than UC.
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  8. #82
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I just think it's realistic. UC just doesn't have the tradition or the fan support to compete with Michigan State.
    UC football could have both of those things if their alums and students would stop moaning about how they don't have tradition and fan support for 15 minutes and worked to make things better...

    The logic is pure defeatism -- at some point, someone has to say "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired" and move the program forward.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 11-27-2006 at 10:32 PM.
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Not if most people just don't care. It's just a fact, most alums are Ohio State fans or pro fans. It's done and gone with this generation.

    Hopefully they can hire some flashy O coordinator and prove me wrong. I'd like to see UC have a solid fan base.
    Last edited by Cedric; 11-27-2006 at 10:41 PM.
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Not if most people just don't care. It's just a fact, most alums are Ohio State fans or pro fans. It's done and gone with this generation.
    Something tells me that a couple of winning seasons and a big bowl game might turn some of these Ohio State "fans" into UC fans though. Support for the basketball program was nothing until Huggs came and took us to the final four. Suddenly everyone wants to be a UC basketball fan. As much as I hate to admit it, Cincinnati does have a lot of fair weather fans.

  11. #85
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    This inferiority complex bothers the hell out of me. It's a "woe is me, I'll never be as great as THE Ohio State University or Notre Dame, so why should I even try" song and dance that is used as an excuse. For teams not in a BCS conference (like my own whining alma mater, Tulane), the song and dance is "we're not in a BCS conference, how can we compete?" Well, now even for teams in a BCS conference the song and dance is "we're not a traditional football powerhouse, how can we compete?"

    Don't have a 100,000 seat stadium? Neither do the Oregon Ducks, but they somehow manage to make Autzen Stadium the loudest place on the planet once a week in the fall. Don't have a storied football tradition? Neither did the Virginia Tech Hokies, but they somehow managed to make it to a national title game and carve out a nice program for themselves with a hot young recruit named Michael Vick.

    It takes alumni support and a commitment from the university to playing winning football. Winning puts you in big TV games, gets you into big bowl games, and into the homes of top recruits. Alumni support sells your stadium out and gets people excited about your product. UC could do both -- they could go out this week and find themselves a top-flight coach, pay him what he's worth and then go aggressively sell the football program to their alumni base. Lean on the big time alums to pony up for season tickets and make UC football the place for Cincinnatians to be seen on the weekends.

    Or -- just roll over and die for the traditional powerhouses. That's what they want, anyway: to find a way to remind you that no matter what you do, what conference you join, you're still on the outside looking in compared to them. They belong in the big game, not you. They deserve the top talent each year, not you. If I were a UC alum, I know I'd be crowing loudly for the former.
    I'm not saying they can't have a good program. But it takes more than money and marketing to make a program big-time. It takes tradition and a dedicated fan base that is going to support the team whether they go 11-0 or 0-11. How many bowl games has UC gone to in their history? How many All-Americans have they had? How many players have gone on to the NFL? There are only so many big time programs. Off the very top of my head I figure USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Alabama, tOSU, Florida St., and Miami. FSU and Miami have been pretty much the only ones in the last 20-30 years who have broken into this elite group. Teams like Va Tech, LSU, Iowa, Louisville, West Virginia, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia are excellent programs but they will probably never break into that elite group. And there's no shame in that. They are all that they can be. I think that's a level UC could have achieved if Dantonio stayed and could depending on the new coach. Getting a top flight coach and getting him to stay is easier said than done. Who are you going to get?
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  12. #86
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I'm not saying they can't have a good program. But it takes more than money and marketing to make a program big-time. It takes tradition and a dedicated fan base that is going to support the team whether they go 11-0 or 0-11. How many bowl games has UC gone to in their history? How many All-Americans have they had? How many players have gone on to the NFL? There are only so many big time programs. Off the very top of my head I figure USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Alabama, tOSU, Florida St., and Miami. FSU and Miami have been pretty much the only ones in the last 20-30 years who have broken into this elite group. Teams like Va Tech, LSU, Iowa, Louisville, West Virginia, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia are excellent programs but they will probably never break into that elite group. And there's no shame in that. They are all that they can be. I think that's a level UC could have achieved if Dantonio stayed and could depending on the new coach. Getting a top flight coach and getting him to stay is easier said than done. Who are you going to get?
    Completely agree. UC is about fifth fiddle in this neighborhood. Being that far down the totem pole with no tradition and about zero dedicated fans isn't gonna work out.

    I said that earlier in a thread and you called me a defeatist though
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Completely agree. UC is about fifth fiddle in this neighborhood. Being that far down the totem pole with no tradition and about zero dedicated fans isn't gonna work out.

    I said that earlier in a thread and you called me a defeatist though

    I said you were a defeatist because you said they can never be a really good program. I think they can but not on the level of the traditional powerhouses. I think they have a Va Tech level. But is it worth it? Building a basketball program is much easier than building a football program. You don't have as many scholarships to give and you don't have as large of an arena to fill. One player can make a difference. It's tougher in football.
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    Re: UC basketball vs. UC football

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I said you were a defeatist because you said they can never be a really good program. I think they can but not on the level of the traditional powerhouses. I think they have a Va Tech level. But is it worth it? Building a basketball program is much easier than building a football program. You don't have as many scholarships to give and you don't have as large of an arena to fill. One player can make a difference. It's tougher in football.
    I meant a stable, constant program. It would be very hard to produce that here.

    I don't think Virginia Tech is a good comparison though. No pro football really in the area and the other in state school isn't near at the Ohio State level. People in this area that love college football are going to go with the dominant winner. Parents and kids grow up in this area with a love and respect for Ohio State. It's quite obvious that even in Clifton, Ohio State is the favorite.
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