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Thread: World Series Game 5 Thread

  1. #196
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: World Series Game 5 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    But was it veterans that brought the Cards the WS, as much the Tiger's youth and post-season inexperience (as compared to the Cards as of late) that lost it?

    I have no problem with veterans (don't want a roster filled with AARP candidates), as long as they are veterans that have a resume of performance.

    Perhaps a little of both, thus perhaps cementing in Narron's eyes that youth = bad and vets = good.

    I'm not saying you should have a team full of kids like the Marlins. You should have a mix. But all we are going to hear about this offseason is how the Cards won it with their veteran guys like Rolen, Carpenter, Suppan, Weaver and Edmonds. Pujols and Eckstein aren't vets like those guys but they aren't just up from the bushes either. About the only guys on that team who contributed and were rookies were Duncan and a few of the bullpen guys. They won and I give them full credit. But Someone like Narron looks at the Cards and sees they win it with veteran goodliness and, once again, when it comes down to a choice between a talented but erratic younger player and a older guy who Knows How To Win and Plays The Game The Right Way, he'll use the Cards as a reason to play older guy over the rookie. Before this year, he might be second-guessed for that. Now, he can just say, "Look at the Cards." and everyone will agree.
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  3. #197
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: World Series Game 5 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Perhaps a little of both, thus perhaps cementing in Narron's eyes that youth = bad and vets = good.

    I'm not saying you should have a team full of kids like the Marlins. You should have a mix. But all we are going to hear about this offseason is how the Cards won it with their veteran guys like Rolen, Carpenter, Suppan, Weaver and Edmonds. Pujols and Eckstein aren't vets like those guys but they aren't just up from the bushes either. About the only guys on that team who contributed and were rookies were Duncan and a few of the bullpen guys. They won and I give them full credit. But Someone like Narron looks at the Cards and sees they win it with veteran goodliness and, once again, when it comes down to a choice between a talented but erratic younger player and a older guy who Knows How To Win and Plays The Game The Right Way, he'll use the Cards as a reason to play older guy over the rookie. Before this year, he might be second-guessed for that. Now, he can just say, "Look at the Cards." and everyone will agree.
    Well...I hate to say it, but with this particular team, he has a point. I know it's totally passe to pimp the veteran-with-experience thing, but I only think that is a harmful phrase if those veterans are given playing time AT THE EXPENSE of talented younger players. And I know that this is what you're referring to and of course I think it's a danger with Narron, especially since he has a team whose younger players are, generally speaking, better than his veterans. But that phrase on its own is not completely without merit. And there is no question in my mind that the vetern goodliness helped this Cardinals team. They did not win this on talent alone.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  4. #198
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: World Series Game 5 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Well...I hate to say it, but with this particular team, he has a point. I know it's totally passe to pimp the veteran-with-experience thing, but I only think that is a harmful phrase if those veterans are given playing time AT THE EXPENSE of talented younger players. And I know that this is what you're referring to and of course I think it's a danger with Narron, especially since he has a team whose younger players are, generally speaking, better than his veterans. But that phrase on its own is not completely without merit. And there is no question in my mind that the vetern goodliness helped this Cardinals team. They did not win this on talent alone.

    Yeah, I am basically referring to veterans getting playing time over younger players. We saw it this season with Encarnacion. God only knows if that will continue next year. But, right now, that is the only veteran vs. youngster conflict I see now. Votto may be the next one to suffer but AAA might be the best place for him this year anyway much like I think AAA was good for EE in 2005.
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    Chip is right

  5. #199
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    Re: World Series Game 5 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Yeah, I am basically referring to veterans getting playing time over younger players. We saw it this season with Encarnacion. God only knows if that will continue next year. But, right now, that is the only veteran vs. youngster conflict I see now. Votto may be the next one to suffer but AAA might be the best place for him this year anyway much like I think AAA was good for EE in 2005.
    I think you two may be confusing terms: being a "scrappy vet" doesn't presuppose "experience in the postseason."

    Pujols is anything BUT a "scrappy vet" but he does have a buttload of postseason experience that I'm sure served him well, steeled his nerves, etc.

  6. #200
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: World Series Game 5 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I think you two may be confusing terms: being a "scrappy vet" doesn't presuppose "experience in the postseason."

    Pujols is anything BUT a "scrappy vet" but he does have a buttload of postseason experience that I'm sure served him well, steeled his nerves, etc.

    Not really. I'd go to war with Pujols any day of the week. But I'm not talking about a player of his caliber. Look at all the vets on that StL team. They have Belliard and Encarnacion not to mention the guys I already mentioned. I'm not saying StL did a bad thing by having a club with a lot of experience. It certainly helped them beat DET who had several guys who looked shellshocked. On a side note, I was actually pleasantly surprised at Sean Casey's play in the Series. He didn't have any more post season experience than anyone on the Tigers and he was a star in a losing effort.

    Perhaps I'm making more of this than what it is. It's not like Narron needed the Cards winning the Series to favor the veteran over the young player. And, VP is right cause besides 3rd base, there aren't any breakthrough position players in the system that are ready now. But when there is, assuming Narron is still managing, if someone calls him on it, he can just point to the 06 Cards to show what veteran presence did for that team. It doesn't matter that most of those vets were All Stars, they are/were vets just the same. I don't hate the vets, scrappy ones or otherwise. I would be OK with Aurilia at 2nd next year cause I'm not high on anyone else in the system and I don't think Freel is a particularly good infielder. But I don't want to sign a guy like Aurilia if it keeps a young player who has a shot to be a fine ballplayer on the bench.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
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  7. #201
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: World Series Game 5 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    And, VP is right cause besides 3rd base, there aren't any breakthrough position players in the system that are ready now. But when there is, assuming Narron is still managing, if someone calls him on it, he can just point to the 06 Cards to show what veteran presence did for that team.
    Some time in 2007 this will end up an issue at 1B with Votto and Hat. I don't know if the 2006 Cards will have anything to do with it. Worse is that it appears Krivsky agrees (McCracken over C. Ross, Franklin/Johnson/Cormier over a number of good AA relievers, Mays/Michalek over Germano).


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