Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    190

    McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    Seventh inning of game 5 (I think. Maybe game 4).
    Two outs, Cards with runners at first (Pujols) and second, tie game.
    Sharp single to left. Runner from second comes around to score.
    Pujuls intentionally rounds second and heads for third to try and get the throw cut off.
    Throw from outfield is cut-off and Pujols is easily rundown for the third out.
    Run counts and Cards take a one-run lead.

    McCarver: (sic)
    "That was a great piece of baserunning by Pujols"

    Does anyone think not?
    It looked to me like the run would have scored easily, and the Cards could have had first and second with 2 outs all over again.

    McCarver hyperbole?
    Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    4,045

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    It is such a cliche to say that was "great baserunning." That is what an announcer is supposed to say.

    Was it? I think the guys was going to score too, so maybe not.

  4. #3
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    17,564

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    I agree, Taguchi was going to score because had the throw not been cut off it would have been further up the first base line than at home. In reality, bad baserunning by Pujols.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  5. #4
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Oakwood, OH
    Posts
    11,663

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    There is an old saying.... "Never make the 1st or 3rd out at 3rd-base".
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  6. #5
    Headed South
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    85

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    I felt the same way when I watched that play unfold.

    Pujols was expecting the throw to be gung-ho to home to stop the run, so he was going to sneak to 3rd. In reality, the Tigers smartly cut it off and caught him napping and ended what could've been a bigger inning.

    Foolish McCarver.

    The art of losing isn't hard to master.


    - e.b.

  7. #6
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,835

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    I agree, it sounds like rationalizing. If the throw's coming home and you have a chance to get the runner at the plate, you're not going to cut it so you can nail a trailing runner. If you don't think you can get the runner (throw won't be in time, it's offline, etc.) then you cut it.

    Let me put it this way: I saw the exact same play several times this year with the Reds and at no point did I think to myself, "wow, that was awesome baserunning."
    Not all who wander are lost

  8. #7
    Yay!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,418

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    I dunno about this one.

    I agree, the run would have scored regardless of what Pujols did...

    But, to ensure that the go-ahead run scores in the bottom of the 7th inning against a team that hadn't been able to score on a consistent basis in the deciding game of the World Series...

    It's OK.

    Usually, no, but in this case, there's a lot more in play than just the "cardinal sin" of not making the 3rd out at 3rd.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  9. #8
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,835

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    But, to ensure that the go-ahead run scores
    I just don't see where that's a credible argument. When a throw is coming to the plate, the decision to cut it or let it through is based on one factor and one factor only: is there a chance to get the runner at home? Whether Pujols did or didn't get too far around second is not part of the decision-making calculus. Only after the call is made to cut off the throw would it matter where the trail runners are.

    I mean, we've been following baseball how long? Has anyone on this board ever heard, before now, the suggestion that trailing runners can influence whether a throw to the plate is cut off when it otherwise would not have been because there is a possibility of getting the out at home? And that it's "good baserunning" to get yourself caught that way?
    Not all who wander are lost

  10. #9
    Plays The Right Way Hap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    796.357
    Posts
    1,715

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    That play actually happens quite a bit in amateur ball.

    Only do the rundown if it is absolutely necessary to get in a run that is absolutely necessary.
    .

  11. #10
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,601

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    The catcher makes the call. He's the only one with the play in front of him. The catcher might call out "cut 2", which would mean cut and throw to second base. That's why hitting the cutoff man is so important. If he has a chance to get the runner at home, he lets it go with no cut. If he thinks the runner will beat the throw of if he sees the throw is off line, he will call the cut. All this, of course, in a perfect world.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  12. #11
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    7,166

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    There is an old saying.... "Never make the 1st or 3rd out at 3rd-base".
    What if the leadoff hitter digs in for a triple and you have a chance to get him out at third?
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  13. #12
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,772

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    I was a little woozy when that play went down, but I remember LaRussa's immediate reaction in the dugout appeared to be a bit of dissatisfaction with Pujols.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  14. #13
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,601

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I was a little woozy when that play went down, but I remember LaRussa's immediate reaction in the dugout appeared to be a bit of dissatisfaction with Pujols.



    I can't remember a reaction shot of LaRussa, but I can't imagine he'd be calling that play good baserunning by Pujols.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  15. #14
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Oakwood, OH
    Posts
    11,663

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    What if the leadoff hitter digs in for a triple and you have a chance to get him out at third?
    I think you looking at it from the defensive perspective, vatican. You take any out you can get at any base when on defense (absolutely). The old saying is relative to the team batting. The premise of that saying is to stop at 2nd when real risky b/c odds are:

    (1) with 0 outs there is a great chance you will score if your team can do something halfway decent (which our REDS had trouble doing this year!).

    (2) with 2 outs you should be able to score from 2nd on most basehits (running on contact w/ 2 outs and getting a good jump).

    There is always things like a wild-pitch, a balk or an infield single that would score a man from 3rd, but those things are "sort of" rare things to happen and not worth the risk taken (being gunned down at 3rd).
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    42

    Re: McCarver and Pujols's "great baserunning"

    I'm the biggest McCarver hater there is...and it pains me to admit what I'm about to say.

    Watching the game with my wife, who's a smarter than average baseball fan, and she asked me if it was good that the Cards made the third out that way (at third base) but the go ahead run scored.

    During the 4+ minutes of commercials, we talked about making sure the throw was cut off and assuring the Cards of the go ahead run. I do agree that Uncle Albert was trying to sneak to third, but I also don't mind him making sure the throw is cut off, and getting into a rundown to make sure the throw doesn't go through and nail the guy at the plate. It was a bit up the line, but Albert doesn't know that at the time.

    I don't think it was "great baserunning" but I did say to my wife "that's a good play to draw the throw late in a tied game." When McCidiot said his comment, my wife laughed and said, "Oh, the two of you agree on something."

    I wish she would have called me fat instead of that hurtful comment.

    "Great Baserunning"...I don't think so. A good play to make sure the Cards had the lead late, yes. See, I'm already distancing myself from Timmy.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25