Bengals v. Ravens -- 'Do or die?'

[Yachtzee]

The early fumble and the early interception putting them in a 14 point hole hurt them. I did like the increased use of Rudi earlier in the game. The first few series, Palmer looked pretty bad. Using Rudi on subsequent drives seemed to help calm Palmer down and slowed down the Baltimore pass rush. I think it might have been a different game had the Bengals not been down by 14 within the first 5 minutes.

The Bengals had a bad no-call on that 4th down late, and a nice pass defensed by the umpire on the previous series. They may well have won the game had one of those two plays turned out differently, but maybe they wouldn't have been down by 6 at the end if they hadn't coughed the ball up so early.

[traderumor]

I agree with you guys it was a bad call. However the Bengals continue to lose not the refs. They let a rookie QB drive down the field on them in Tampa and today they played like crap early and like always Palmer spent more time on his back than his feet. The Bengals are losing because they are playing poorly not because the refs keep "screwing" them.

Again, the way any team plays is irrelevant to how the officials perform. Of course the refs didn't lose the game, the Bengals still would have to go about 65 more yards from there. But, the officials job is to make correct calls. When they do not, it is fair game to criticize their calls and say that it had an impact on the game. Everybody knows this, but it is beside the point. Just like the Bengals need to do their jobs and when they do not it impacts games, so does it when the refs do not do their job. That was not even a hard call, much like the one you dredged up from week #5.

[traderumor]

I'll say it again...what ever happened to Marvin being a defensive genius?

Brian Billick was supposed to be an offensive genius, yet when he became a head coach, his teams have constantly struggled on offense. When you figure that one out, I think you'll have the answer for why Marvin's teams achilles heel have been the defense. I think that one's specialty as an assistant is only going to play out as a head coach if they are doing the coordinating. Right now, the pass D is horrid. Something has got to change in the second half, but I doubt it will. It's still a personnel problem.

[smith288]

Hard to shore up the D when the quality of the player on the dline is abhorrent.

[traderumor]

Nothing is really going the Bengals way at this point. Injuries, poor play, bounces, field goals doinking in, interceptions going through defenders hands, and questionable officiating.

Constantly bad field position on both sides of the ball is making it very hard on themselves. The only way the D stops anybody is on turnovers, and they have not been getting them, although the opportunities have been there, just not making the plays.

I want to comment on Palmer ripping into Chris Henry for his quitting on that hail mary. He didn't even jump for the ball.

[traderumor]

Hard to shore up the D when the quality of the player on the dline is abhorrent.

Yea, no pass rush. They put pressure on maybe twice all day today. It was pathetic.

[cincy jacket]

On a bright side to all this, Joseph looked really impressive today. I think we should start to see less and less of Tory "grandpa" James for the rest of the year.

[guttle11]

Ok, there's four minutes to go, you're down by six. You've been having great success throwing the ball all second half. The O line is actually giving Carson time to throw.

1st ten on the last drive, taking the last paragraph into play, what do you do?

Yes, Mr Bratkowski?

"Run?"

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

PS: If I see one more 10 yard cushion on a 3rd and 5/6/7, I think my head's going to explode.

[max venable]

I agree with you guys it was a bad call. However the Bengals continue to lose not the refs. They let a rookie QB drive down the field on them in Tampa and today they played like crap early and like always Palmer spent more time on his back than his feet. The Bengals are losing because they are playing poorly not because the refs keep "screwing" them.

Nobody said the refs were the reason the Bengals lost. Win or lose, they still got screwed on some bad calls. That's all. We just want the freaking refs to do their jobs.

[paintmered]

When Carson actually had time to throw today, he looked like the Carson of last year. But that's the problem, he hasn't had much time to chop up defenses with his arm because he's throwing off his back foot every other attempt.

[Tony Cloninger]

It goes back to the people the Bengals draft.

Why can DL make a defense in PITT but not 1 in Cincy?

Beacuse....even PITT with all the small market stuff they deal with, like the Bengals......and an owner who is family based.......even they know....you need a very good GM and competent scouts, year round.

Scouts and GM who know what players will fit in that system.

How many of PITT very good defensive players in the 90's went to other teams and excelled like they did in PITT.

Maybe Chad Brown?

The question is next year....if this team goes 7-9 or 6-10...which is a very easy possibility....... what kind of team will this be?

They have, it seems, for the most part ZERO heart......any adversity puts them out. Mainly on defense....where they seem incapable of stopping anyone on a consistent basis. They did against PITT and CAR...but that was beacuse of TO's.

I think some players though they were big time....after a 4-0 PS and a 3-0 start.......SURE the injuries have not helped....but Rich Braham was not Dwight Stephenson...... I mean come on.....how bad do you have to be as an OL...when you all turn to crap just beacuse he goes down?

[MWM]

What we're seeing this year on defense is what last year's defense would have looked like without the turnovers, which was the product of luck moreso than design. The defense line is awful and the pass rush is as bad as I've seen. Marvin has obviously done a good job overall, but the defense hasn't improved at all and that's a big indictment on him. This defense is just horrendous. And for some reason the O-Line is playing poorly this year, so you don't have the offensive juggernaut to cover it up. I'm thinking 7-9, maybe 6-10 for this team.

And I'm tired of seeing Bengals players whining like a bunch of babies. If Marvin isn't careful he's going to lose control of the team altogether. I see a lot of jawing going on within the team and a lot of egos that appear to be getting out of control. I wish they'd just shut up and play.

[traderumor]

What we're seeing this year on defense is what last year's defense would have looked like without the turnovers, which was the product of luck moreso than design. The defense line is awful and the pass rush is as bad as I've seen. Marvin has obviously done a good job overall, but the defense hasn't improved at all and that's a big indictment on him. This defense is just horrendous. And for some reason the O-Line is playing poorly this year, so you don't have the offensive juggernaut to cover it up. I'm thinking 7-9, maybe 6-10 for this team.

And I'm tired of seeing Bengals players whining like a bunch of babies. If Marvin isn't careful he's going to lose control of the team altogether. I see a lot of jawing going on within the team and a lot of egos that appear to be getting out of control. I wish they'd just shut up and play.

I think you hit it on the D and I agree. This was what happened when the fade started in the last third of the season last year. No turnovers, no stops.

As for the last part, that is the modern day NFL player. All teams do the woofing, I simply don't pay any attention to it for the most part or I wouldn't be able to watch the NFL. TJ is an emotional dude, and he is rightly frustrated when easy calls keep going against his team.

[CTA513]

When Carson actually had time to throw today, he looked like the Carson of last year. But that's the problem, he hasn't had much time to chop up defenses with his arm because he's throwing off his back foot every other attempt.

The injuries on the O-Line have really hurt his protection. He has already been sacked more this year than all of last year. He is also getting hit alot after throwing the ball. They need to improve really quick or shuffle some people around, because they cant keep on letting Palmer get hit.

[SteelSD]

Well, Pitt's season just effectively ended- not coincidentally on their FIFTH turnover of the day.

Now I really hope the Bengals can start taking care of business because I'm going to be sickened if the freakin' Ravens take the division. Go get 'em.