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Thread: Can someone clarify something for me?

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    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Can someone clarify something for me?

    Why are the Tigers supposedly shipping out Bonderman? Is that true? If they are, he should be target #1 for the Reds (18 HR in 34 games).
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Tread carefully with Bonderman. I'd pick him up, but I wouldn't believe I was getting a sure thing with him. Something about the guy bugs me, and it isn't because he looks like Powder.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Something about the guy bugs me, and it isn't because he looks like Powder.
    Maybe because his numbers have never been very good, especially considering what a nice pitchers park Comerica is. He doesn't look any better than guys named Rogers, Robertson, Maroth, etc.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Are they really shopping him? I've read trade ideas here on RedsZone with his name mentioned but I haven't seen it anywhere else. Then again, I haven't really looked anywhere else.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa View Post
    Maybe because his numbers have never been very good, especially considering what a nice pitchers park Comerica is. He doesn't look any better than guys named Rogers, Robertson, Maroth, etc.
    Gotta disagree there. Bonderman is no sure thing, but he is light years ahead of Maroth and Robertson. It's not even close. Bonderman was pretty solid this season. If he came to the Reds I think he could post a 3.40-3.60 ERA. Robertson and Maroth are far worse.

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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    Gotta disagree there. Bonderman is no sure thing, but he is light years ahead of Maroth and Robertson. It's not even close. Bonderman was pretty solid this season. If he came to the Reds I think he could post a 3.40-3.60 ERA. Robertson and Maroth are far worse.
    On potential I would agree but on performance they have put up similar numbers.

    2006
    NR 3.84ERA 1.31WHIP
    JB 4.08ERA 1.30WHIP
    MM - injured

    2005
    NR 4.48ERA 1.36WHIP
    JB 4.57ERA 1.35WHIP
    MM 4.74ERA 1.37 WHIP

    2004
    NR 4.90ERA 1.40WHIP
    JB 4.89ERA 1.31WHIP
    MM 4.31ERA 1.40WHIP

    performance looks awfully similar to me. Pitching a very nice pitchers ballpark Bonderman has done nothing to say he is anything special to this point in his career. He may blossom in the future but I wouldn't want to pay for that in a trade.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa View Post
    On potential I would agree but on performance they have put up similar numbers.

    2006
    NR 3.84ERA 1.31WHIP
    JB 4.08ERA 1.30WHIP
    MM - injured

    2005
    NR 4.48ERA 1.36WHIP
    JB 4.57ERA 1.35WHIP
    MM 4.74ERA 1.37 WHIP

    2004
    NR 4.90ERA 1.40WHIP
    JB 4.89ERA 1.31WHIP
    MM 4.31ERA 1.40WHIP

    performance looks awfully similar to me. Pitching a very nice pitchers ballpark Bonderman has done nothing to say he is anything special to this point in his career. He may blossom in the future but I wouldn't want to pay for that in a trade.
    Bonderman was horribly unlucky this season. Teams BAPIP'd .328 off of him. By comparison to Maroth and Robertson, Bonderman K's more guys, BB's about the same, and gives up far less HR's.

    Their stats look similar basically out of luck (especially this season). I think Bonderman has made terrific strides this season. If he can stay healthy, I think he would make a good front of the rotation starter with enormous potential. I think he may be a big injury risk with the amount of time he's already pitched in the majors at his age, but from a talent perspective, he's a great target.

    If he can keep pitching up to his current levels, there will be an enormous gap between him and Robertson/Maroth, with enormous potential for the future.

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    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa View Post
    On potential I would agree but on performance they have put up similar numbers.

    2006
    NR 3.84ERA 1.31WHIP
    JB 4.08ERA 1.30WHIP
    MM - injured

    2005
    NR 4.48ERA 1.36WHIP
    JB 4.57ERA 1.35WHIP
    MM 4.74ERA 1.37 WHIP

    2004
    NR 4.90ERA 1.40WHIP
    JB 4.89ERA 1.31WHIP
    MM 4.31ERA 1.40WHIP

    performance looks awfully similar to me. Pitching a very nice pitchers ballpark Bonderman has done nothing to say he is anything special to this point in his career. He may blossom in the future but I wouldn't want to pay for that in a trade.
    Hey, the guy's 24 and he showing a good trend in his #s. I'd jump if he's out there...
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Hey, the guy's 24 and he showing a good trend in his #s. I'd jump if he's out there...
    Reds have little to give and certainly no position of strength to trade from. The Reds are more likely limited to trading for a good player with a not so good contract.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    Bonderman was horribly unlucky this season.
    so what happened in 2004 and 2005? Maybe his middle name is Schleprock.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa View Post
    so what happened in 2004 and 2005? Maybe his middle name is Schleprock.
    He was 22 and 23.

    It's called developing. Young pitchers tend to do that.

    He's clearly improving, and this season, it's ridiculous to compare him to Robertson/Maroth.

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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    I know what it is that bugs me: tons of mileage on a young arm. Thanks all for reminding me.

  14. #13
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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    He's clearly improving, and this season, it's ridiculous to compare him to Robertson/Maroth.
    Yep, he compares much better to Halladay.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I know what it is that bugs me: tons of mileage on a young arm.
    ... and without much success to this point.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Can someone clarify something for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa View Post
    ... and without much success to this point.
    In all fairness, he had a pretty great season this year. But they've pushed the pedal to the metal with that kid. I expect the wheels to fall off any time.

    Like I said, I'd pick him up in a trade, but I wouldn't give a premium chip to do it.


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