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Thread: Free agency just a thought by me

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    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Free agency just a thought by me

    One man's trash is another man's treasure. many times over the past season i read and gave opinions on Wayne K's digging of what was perceived as "garbage" signings or trades aka for a ptbl. I know without a doubt the astute Red's fan's on Redszone will shake there head and go , yes I have thought the same thing! BTW your welcome in advance as I was the first drunk long time fan to put these thoughts on this site.

    1. Byung Kyu Lee (scary thought is this guy is going to make over 2 million some where is that crazy or what?)
    2. Gary Matthews (good god he asked Texas for over 10 million a year ! Has this guy not been passed around more than a bad clam dip at a party)
    3. Jeff Suppan (sure to get 8 million a year over say 3 or 4 years !) we complain about Milton but come on now this guy is has been horrendous forever.
    4. Frank Thomas Just received 10 million a year for next 2 years with the Jay's. I have to add that I love this guy but come on now are you kidding me? Frank could end up on the (ir) from a simple thing as a lobster fork accident.
    5. Alex Gonzalez some fool is going to hand him a 3 yr deal at about 21 million or more. Personally I take my chances with a 6 yr monor league vet who can field the position and bat him 8th and use the dollars for a proven bat at another position of need.
    6. Mark Loretta Want to bet this guy gets a deal that would make you say omg the world of baseball has become insane!?
    7. Jamie Walker Rumor has it the Orioles just signed this guy for 10 million over the next 3 years. The Red's fans complain about the "heist" that Washington pulled on them but yet if Majik was a Free agent for even 1 moment do you even doubt that he would have received more than this guy ?
    8. Mark Redman This guy is going to get at least 7 million a year over the next 3 years from somebody and maybe more. I'm sorry but I rather grab a utility if'er and a mid reliever.
    9.Jay Payton not to be hard on the guy seriously but if he was useful would some team by now not have kept him ?
    10.Gil Meche Ah Gil Meche the siren's song such promise such recovery from tj surgery and what will it cost you ? ( million a year for atleast 3 years for a 3rd or 4th starter in a rotation. How sad is that ?
    11.Steve Trachsel somebody is going to give this guy $$$ I am sorry I do not care how many games he won last year. I am dead serious about this if any team gives him $$$$ they deserve the truth he is god awful and has been released or sent packing from awful cub and jay's teams he is truly the anti-christ of this free-agency draft.
    12.Chan Ho Park Has this guy not stolen enough money disguising himself as a pitcher ?
    13.Dave Roberts Nice player decent ability and excellent in the field but for love of Christ! He is going to get a contranct almost equal to Joe Crede's next year I bet. I so hope I am wrong but I fear the worst.
    14.Tony Armas Jr If the going rate for starting pitchers is say around 8 million for mediocre then this guy is going to get atleast that and only due to the fact he is severe injury prone.
    15.Ramon Ortiz- What better to end a soap box rant than to bring this guy up. The cold irony is I fear the Red's may actually bid on him , This guy sums up exactly the madness of free agency and why unlike the "girl" with a reputation in high school should not seduce you as the long term "burning" effect can come back to bite you in the .

    Build from within and use the dollars you dive into free agency for on proven commiditys and realize promise does not equal track record.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

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  3. #2
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
    Build from within and use the dollars you dive into free agency on proven commiditys and realize promise does not equal track record.
    Building from within takes literally years to accomplish and usually involves 5-7 years of last-place finishes. It also means dumping star players, which means dumping a good portion of your fan base.

    I think the Reds have enough talent to compete this season if they fill some holes. I think their best chance to fill those holes is by spending cash.

    I agree with you on the craptitude of the free agents you listed. They're fool's gold, IMO. But I think there are some decent free agents like Ted Lilly and Justin Speier who would be worth the money, for the most part.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Building from within takes literally years to accomplish and usually involves 5-7 years of last-place finishes. It also means dumping star players, which means dumping a good portion of your fan base.

    I think the Reds have enough talent to compete this season if they fill some holes. I think their best chance to fill those holes is by spending cash.

    I agree with you on the craptitude of the free agents you listed. They're fool's gold, IMO. But I think there are some decent free agents like Ted Lilly and Justin Speier who would be worth the money, for the most part.

    But Johnny they are already doing that don't you feel? Most of the talk is about Homer and Votto and Cueto plus Wood along with Bruce. To me personally the success of this franchise probably is pinned to there success.

    Is it a huge gamble? Most defintly. But Arroyo and Harang being locked up to contracts is becoming more clearly unlikely. I shudder at what the future hold's but I refuse to not have hope.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
    Is it a huge gamble? Most defintly. But Arroyo and Harang being locked up to contracts is becoming more clearly unlikely. I shudder at what the future hold's but I refuse to not have hope.
    I agree Arroyo probably isn't interested in an extension, although stranger things have happened. But why not Harrang? Players oftentimes opt for security and the place they know. He has a chance to the #1 guy here for a while. I'd like to think he'd find that of interest.

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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Suppan's horrendous?

    First I've heard of it. But you're right: Milton IS horrendous.

    I'd pay Suppan 8 million for 2 years in a heartbeat.

  7. #6
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Suppan's horrendous?

    First I've heard of it. But you're right: Milton IS horrendous.

    I'd pay Suppan 8 million for 2 years in a heartbeat.
    Couldn't agree more. Especially with the number of innings he brings to the table. With Suppan as you're number 3 your rotation would have a fighting chance. I'd take a look at Padilla too. His numbers seem to fluctuate but the guy is a Hard (Butt) and can really add some swagger. His injuries have always scared me a bit though.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Member wally post's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Agreed, but everybody's got a lot of money to spend - he may get 8 mil PER year!

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    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I agree Arroyo probably isn't interested in an extension, although stranger things have happened.
    I think there's a chance of this depending on what kind of success the Reds have within the next two season. If the Reds start winning, reaching the postseason, and the fans start coming out better, there is a relatively decent chance he'll want to come back. If none of that happens, I'm sure he'll go elsewhere and I couldn't blame him.

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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Thought I read Padilla is looking for $10 mil per... NO THANKS

  11. #10
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSelig View Post
    Thought I read Padilla is looking for $10 mil per... NO THANKS
    In that case...I'll pass. If he's asking 6-7 Million per I would still take a shot.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    The Arroyo lovefest cracks me up. Not only was he about as lucky as you could get last year, but he is the definition of a overvalued commodity. A nice reversion to lesser pitcher next year and possible injury time are a worry. Wayne might want to sell him high and tight while the returnee knows he got shafted a year later. If the right deal doesn't come along, keep him, but he isn't untouchable nor somebody the Reds need to sign to a LTC.

    Harang is a different story, he is a younger version of Pete Harnish for the Reds and a valuable player to have when you look to develope young arms. He is big. He was beat around a little much for my tastes last year and his Krate was a little high for his stuff. I expect both to moderate(both good and bad) next year, but his ability to win 15 games and stay healthy while posting 200+ innings IMO is a good bet for the rest of the decade. Not a ace, but something the Reds need more than a Arroyo pan flash.

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    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    The Arroyo lovefest cracks me up. Not only was he about as lucky as you could get last year, but he is the definition of a overvalued commodity. A nice reversion to lesser pitcher next year and possible injury time are a worry. Wayne might want to sell him high and tight while the returnee knows he got shafted a year later. If the right deal doesn't come along, keep him, but he isn't untouchable nor somebody the Reds need to sign to a LTC.

    Harang is a different story, he is a younger version of Pete Harnish for the Reds and a valuable player to have when you look to develope young arms. He is big. He was beat around a little much for my tastes last year and his Krate was a little high for his stuff. I expect both to moderate(both good and bad) next year, but his ability to win 15 games and stay healthy while posting 200+ innings IMO is a good bet for the rest of the decade. Not a ace, but something the Reds need more than a Arroyo pan flash.
    I don't buy your evaluation of Arroyo.

    He didn't log 200 innings of above average ERA, high K ball because he was lucky.

    He doesn't walk a ton, he can strike guys out at a decent clip, and he had a prior track record when it comes to logging innings.

    A rubber armed innings eater is always a welcome commodity.

    As far as FA's are concerned, Padilla is a red arse and I totally dig him.

    Sign him.

    It's not gonna take much to make the 07 staff as good as any in the NL.
    Wayne's either willing to spend the jack, or he isn't. That's the issue.

    I'm more stumped about what he's planning in regards to the lineup/defense. I'm not sure the guy knows offensive or defensive value when he sees it.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    I don't buy your evaluation of Arroyo.

    He didn't log 200 innings of above average ERA, high K ball because he was lucky.

    He doesn't walk a ton, he can strike guys out at a decent clip, and he had a prior track record when it comes to logging innings.

    A rubber armed innings eater is always a welcome commodity.

    As far as FA's are concerned, Padilla is a red arse and I totally dig him.

    Sign him.

    It's not gonna take much to make the 07 staff as good as any in the NL.
    Wayne's either willing to spend the jack, or he isn't. That's the issue.

    I'm more stumped about what he's planning in regards to the lineup/defense. I'm not sure the guy knows offensive or defensive value when he sees it.
    and I don't buy yours. Don't sign him. Either deal him for a good bounty or let him stay through 2008 and let him walk. But don't give multi-million to Arroyo as he progresses in his 30's, and I don't think he is a "rubber arm" innings eater long term either.

    How Arroyo is handled seperates the good GM's from the bad.

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    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    and I don't buy yours. Don't sign him. Either deal him for a good bounty or let him stay through 2008 and let him walk. But don't give multi-million to Arroyo as he progresses in his 30's, and I don't think he is a "rubber arm" innings eater long term either.

    How Arroyo is handled seperates the good GM's from the bad.
    Oh I get it.

    You're talking long term.

    I'd be in favor of dealing him before his contract expires as well. I just don't wanna sell him short on what he did for the club last season.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Re: Free agency just a thought by me

    Great posts guys and I hope for a great future with this franchise. Love harang and Arroyo's great to but I am not adverse to dealing him back to the Sox if it is beneficial for the Red's.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.


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