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Thread: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

  1. #61
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    You can't in the current marketplace. Have you seen other signings? Frank freaking Thomas is getting 9 million a year to be an elderly DH...
    And a 36 year old reliever named Jamie Walker is getting something like 4 million per year over in Baltimore now. There is going to be a lot of overpaying in this offseason's free agency.

    I think 3 years 15 million might be a little too much for Alex (I would prefer 3 yrs 12 mill), but I could live with it. He is one of the best defensive SS in the game and he's still fairly young (I think 29). Sure he can't hit much, but you never know, maybe coming to GABP might help him.
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  3. #62
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    If you have to go more then one years for Gonzalez you tell his agent "no" and you move on to someone else. Three years/15 Million guarenteed money for him is in-SANE.

    The Reds don't HAVE to be insane just because other teams are being insane.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  4. #63
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Hopefully not, Gonzalez is the type of player you shouldn't be paying multi-year contracts for as he can't hit a lick, he better have a power surge ala Rich lol. If Krivsky does this, further signs of incompetence IMO.

    Find these types cheap.
    I've been saying since August that in this market $15 million for 3 years is cheap for an everyday player. The Reds need to go an extra year or an extra couple million a year to get him away from more attractive options like the White Sox and Blue Jays. We could probably get him for 1 year if we paid $7 or $8 Million maybe 2 with a team option at $6 Million and a couple million buyout. Mark Derosa just signed for 3 years at $13 Million. He's 32, has never had a regular starting spot and until the Texas park effect never hit either. He isn't really an option at SS any more than say Aurilia is. In a market that pays that, 3 years at $15 Million to lure an established everyday guy who is a plus fielder and not a complete failure at bat to a perennial loser seems reasonable. Cost of doing business these days. Maybe the media has the $ inflated. They were for Frank Thomas. I doubt it.

    I'd have probably tried the trade route first, but there is the risk that he signs elsewhere and your left with nothing. This will work if the Reds pull out another $8 to $10 million and sign Luis Gonzalez or the like for a year to play 1B. But that won't happen. Teams committed to the Hat with no bat.

    This is why trading the good players to free cash won't work in this market right now. The money will be spent on a couple guys like this.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-18-2006 at 08:43 AM.

  5. #64
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    If you have to go more then one years for Gonzalez you tell his agent "no" and you move on to someone else. Three years/15 Million guarenteed money for him is in-SANE.

    The Reds don't HAVE to be insane just because other teams are being insane.
    I agree to a point Phil. but who else is available? What is 1 year going to get us when we don't have anyone in the system to replace him?

    I'd go 3 years/10 Mil. That won't hurt this team. The guy is one of the best defensive SSs out there right now.

    Yeah - he has a sub-700 OPS.

    So did Concepcion for 19 years.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  6. #65
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I've been saying since August that in this market $15 million for 3 years is cheap for an everyday player. The Reds need to go an extra year or an extra couple million a year to get him away from more attractive options like the White Sox and Blue Jays. We could probably get him for 1 year if we paid $7 or $8 Million maybe 2 with a team option at $6 Million and a couple million buyout. Mark Derosa just signed for 3 years at $13 Million. He's 32, has never had a regular starting spot and until the Texas park effect never hit either. He isn't really an option at SS any more than say Aurilia is. In a market that pays that, 3 years at $15 Million to lure an established everyday guy who is a plus fielder and not a complete failure at bat to a perrenial loser seems reasonable. Cost of doing business these days. Maybe the media has the $ inflated. They were for Frank Thomas. I doubt it.
    2-3 Mil just doesn't get ya much anymore. Thus is the state of MLB.

    Now that doesn't mean you throw it around or away needlessly; but I don't think signing an Alex Gonzalez is doing that.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  7. #66
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    RotoWorld.com:

    Alex Gonzalez is believed to be close to signing a three-year contract with the Reds, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal reports.

    It sounds like Rosenthal is just going off Thursday's Boston Globe report, but with the added knowledge that the White Sox aren't currently in the running for Gonzalez. The Globe reported that Gonzalez had a three-year, $15 million offer on the table, likely from the Reds or the White Sox. If the Reds sign him, they'll have perhaps the best middle-infield defense in the NL. However, it'll be another blow to an offense that GM Wayne Krivsky has taken a lot away from since his July deal with the Nationals.

  8. #67
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    which leads me to this.. as fans what combo would we want?

    Phillips at SS and Aurilia at 2B

    or

    Gonzalez at SS and Phillips at 2B

    I got to go with a younger Gonzalez over Aurilia even if the offense doesn't follow Alex. If Aurilia won't sign for 2 million then that leads me to believe he will sign for 3-4 million. What's 1-2 million for better defense and slightly lower offensive production.

  9. #68
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    which leads me to this.. as fans what combo would we want?

    Phillips at SS and Aurilia at 2B

    or

    Gonzalez at SS and Phillips at 2B

    I got to go with a younger Gonzalez over Aurilia even if the offense doesn't follow Alex. If Aurilia won't sign for 2 million then that leads me to believe he will sign for 3-4 million. What's 1-2 million for better defense and slightly lower offensive production.
    Gonzalez at SS and BP at 2B. We need to vastly improve the middle defense.

    Now go out and get us a groundball pitcher!

    If the Reds do sign him, I'm not bothered by the 3 year deal. The 15 Mil, if it's true, makes me cringe a little bit.

    But you also have to look at the market, what's available out there at the SS position, and more importantly.... if not Gonzo, then who? Do we have anyone in the system at all?

    And I like keeping BP at 2B.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #69
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    2-3 Mil just doesn't get ya much anymore.
    Sean Casey getting $4 mil after the numbers he put up last season says it all.

  11. #70
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    which leads me to this.. as fans what combo would we want?

    Phillips at SS and Aurilia at 2B

    or

    Gonzalez at SS and Phillips at 2B

    I got to go with a younger Gonzalez over Aurilia even if the offense doesn't follow Alex. If Aurilia won't sign for 2 million then that leads me to believe he will sign for 3-4 million. What's 1-2 million for better defense and slightly lower offensive production.
    agreed.
    plus maybe alex would have a little GABP boost as well.

  12. #71
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I agree to a point Phil. but who else is available? What is 1 year going to get us when we don't have anyone in the system to replace him?

    I'd go 3 years/10 Mil. That won't hurt this team. The guy is one of the best defensive SSs out there right now.

    Yeah - he has a sub-700 OPS.

    So did Concepcion for 19 years.
    I totally agree. Putting together a successful MLB team is not done by treating it as a fantasy team. Successful teams need to have great defense up the middle.

  13. #72
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    I think that many don't understand the value of good defense.

    What does saving a hit per week (which doesn't seam like much) really mean?

    Well, based on 500 AB's, a player who gets an extra hit (a single) per week increases his OPS by about 100 points. basdeball is a game of extreme statistics. Marginal improvements will make a real difference over the season. Having a SS who can actually get to balls will improve our pitching much more than most believe.

  14. #73
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    How many miscues on defense cost this team runs last year?

    TOO many.

    How many miscues in the infield led to our pitcher blowing a game because instead of turning a double play or having 2 outs and a guy on first, you have guys in scoring position with 1 (or no) outs?

    TOO many.
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 11-18-2006 at 02:51 PM.

  15. #74
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    Re: Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?

    Scroll down the article to get to Gonzalez and the Reds:

    At last, there may be a market for Manny
    Story Tools:
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    Ken Rosenthal / FOXSports.com
    Posted: 4 hours ago



    For years, the reason the Red Sox couldn't trade left fielder Manny Ramirez was simple — no team wanted to absorb Ramirez's contract.

    The bigger problem now is that the Sox likely couldn't replace Ramirez with a worthy right-handed complement to David Ortiz.
    Finding a taker?


    Manny Ramirez is no longer untradeable, but who wants him? (Stephen Dunn / Getty Images)

    The possibilities are increasing rapidly as the prices for free-agent hitters such as Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee rise.

    The present-day value of Ramirez's contract, due to deferrals, is $17 million per season in 2007 and '08, according to the Boston Herald. The deal also includes an option for '09.

    It's short-term heaven, but Ramirez, 34, almost certainly would want a contract extension in exchange for waiving his no-trade clause.

    Among the clubs that might be interested:

    Cubs: Ramirez would be a perfect fit if the Cubs struck out on Soriano; general manager Jim Spendry — er, Hendry — could sign Julio Lugo or Gary Matthews Jr. to hit leadoff, and a lineup that featured Derrek Lee and both Manny and Aramis Ramirez would be obscene. The Cubs could part with shortstop Cesar Izturis and bullpen arms; and the Sox could reinvest their savings; the Cubs still would need starting pitching.

    Rangers: Three years ago, the Rangers tried to acquire Ramirez and left-hander Jon Lester for shortstop Alex Rodriguez. Pitching remains their biggest need, but the team will be desperate for offense if Lee, Matthews and catcher Rod Barajas join infielder Mark DeRosa as departed free agents.

    Rockies: How about Ramirez for first baseman Todd Helton? The Rockies would need to balance out the money — Helton is guaranteed $16.6 million per season through 2010 and $19.1 million in '11 with a $4.6 million buyout in '12. Another issue: The Sox would be too left-handed if they acquired Helton and signed free-agent outfielder J.D. Drew to go with Ortiz.

    Giants: Manny being Manny is annoying, but a lot more harmless than Barry being Barry. What's more, the departure of Bonds as a free agent would create the need not just for a new left fielder in San Francisco, but also a marquee player. The Giants, though, have little that would appeal to the Red Sox.

    Angels: Previous talks concerning Ramirez went nowhere; the Sox wanted financial relief and top prospects in return. The Angels seem more likely to sign a free agent such as Soriano than part with their best young players in a trade. Their biggest outfield need is in center, not left.

    Dodgers: Another team loaded with prospects — and another that might get shut out on Soriano and pass on Lee. G.M. Ned Colletti has money to burn thanks to the gift certificate that Drew left by opting out of his contract, but might prefer to invest heavily in a free-agent starter such as left-hander Barry Zito or right-hander Jason Schmidt.

    Mariners: Ramirez for first baseman Richie Sexson would be a near-wash financially; Sexson is guaranteed $14 million per season in '07 and '08. The Sox would need to find other offensive pieces somewhere, knowing Sexson strikes out too much to adequately protect Ortiz. Ramirez would be reunited, at least for the moment, with former Indians manager Mike Hargrove.

    Mets: They're not nearly as hot on Ramirez as they once were, and their starting rotation is a far greater priority than left field. G.M. Omar Minaya loves Ramirez, but he will need to acquire two top-of-the-rotation starters if left-hander Tom Glavine leaves for the Braves.


    A new shortstop in Cincinnati?
    Free-agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez is believed to be close to signing a three-year contract with the Reds.

    Gonzalez's agent, Eric Goldschmidt, said he expects to complete a deal by the start of next week, but would not specify with which club.

    The White Sox, a team speculated to be involved with Gonzalez, have not contacted Goldschmidt, according to a major-league source.

    The Blue Jays also have shown interest in Gonzalez, but a second source said they would balk at the rumored price — three years, $15 million.

    Gonzalez, 28, is one of the game's top defensive shortstops, but his .179 batting average with runners in scoring position last season was the lowest in the majors.

    The Red Sox are pursuing free-agent shortstop Julio Lugo, who would be a significant offensive upgrade over Gonzalez.

    Matsuzaka and the price of freedom
    In theory, agent Scott Boras could attempt to buy Japanese right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka's free agency from the Seibu Lions if he failed to sign with the Red Sox within 30 days.

    In reality, such a deal would be extremely unlikely.

    "I can't see the Japanese ever doing that," Lou Melendez, Major League Baseball's vice-president of international operations, told FOXSports.com.

    "It would establish such a precedent. You'd have all their stars asking to do it. I don't think their league would allow it to happen."

    For Boras, the idea behind such a ploy would be to create leverage in his talks with the Red Sox; he seemingly is in a vulnerable position due to his ability to negotiate with only one club.

    Matsuzaka, 26, will return to Seibu if he fails to sign with the Red Sox, costing Seibu its $51.1 million posting fee. He is not eligible for free agency in Japan until May 2008.

    Boras could try to persuade Seibu to grant Matsuzaka immediate free agency by paying the club say, $30 million — a fraction of what the pitcher might command as a major-league free agent.

    Seibu might derive a short-term benefit, but the long-term implications for Japanese baseball would be calamitous.

    "Every good player in Japan, young and old, would immediately seek to buy their free agency, effectively ruining Japanese baseball," one major-league G.M. said.


    This ‘n' that

    Schmidt, on the verge of his biggest payday, changed his representation just before the general managers' meetings, leaving Michael Moye and Scott Sanderson to return to Randy and Alan Hendricks; the pitcher had switched to Moye and Sanderson last March. The Hendricks brothers now control three of the top pitchers on the free-agent market – Schmidt, right-hander Roger Clemens and left-hander Andy Pettitte . . .

    The Rockies likely will wait until the free-agent market settles before getting serious about trading right-hander Jason Jennings. The Astros and Cubs both could be fits for Jennings, who will earn $5.5 million next season before becoming a free agent. The Rockies would like to add a young starter and veteran reliever in return.

    Former Astros pitching coach Jim Hickey suddenly is a hot commodity. He could end up as the Devil Rays' pitching coach if Mike Butcher leaves to replace Bud Black with the Angels. Or, he could become the Nationals' bullpen coach under his good friend, Nats manager Manny Acta.

    Randy St. Claire will be back as the Nationals' pitching coach next season. Butcher's ties to the Angels, meanwhile, are strong; he pitched for them and worked six years a pitching coach in their minor-league system before joining the Devil Rays last season.

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