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Thread: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

  1. #16
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    I guess Bowden wanted too much for Christian Guzman.

    Seriously, Gonzalez is a good, but not great fielder That said, I'd rather see the Reds spend $5 million on a guy like Gonzalez than $8 million on a guy like Julio Lugo.
    Yes, absolutely. Gonzalez would be a serious upgrade over anything else the Reds might throw out there.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    If the choices are Gonzalez for 5 million per or Lugo for 7 million per then I take Lugo every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    Lugo at 8 million per, well there's the dilemna - might be at the cost analysis point where Gonzalez makes more sense, but an OBP of less than .300 - blah. Thats Rey Ordonez territory.
    And how.

    This team is lousy with no stick judy hitters.

    All things considered, I want neither Lugo nor Gonzalez; but if a gun is held to my head, I'll take Lugo.

  4. #18
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Again, the two big questions on the roster are who fills the non-Brandon Phillips middle infield position and how do they get Junior out of centerfield.

    Bringing in Gonzales at what amounts to a reasonable free agent price answers the first question. Yeah, I want more o out of my shortstop than that, but he'll likely outproduce Castro and the reds don't have better in house options.

  5. #19
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    But let's get realistic with some of those comparisons. His D is not Ozzie Smith or Honus Wagner like. His range factor was IDENTICAL to Royce Clayton's this year via the Bill James Handbook. He was the 15th ranked SS in the majors. In 2006. I'll pass.

    http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...s_as_i_see_it/

    "Dialed in" had Gonzales ranked 3rd in the AL with 14 Runs Saved vs. average SS/150. Clayton was -7.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  6. #20
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    And how.

    This team is lousy with no stick judy hitters.

    All things considered, I want neither Lugo nor Gonzalez; but if a gun is held to my head, I'll take Lugo.
    Meh. Lugo is a pretty bad fielder, and you know that if the Reds signed him, he and his .330 OBP would be hitting second. At least Gonzalez will be doing all his damage from the #8 spot.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  7. #21
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Aren't there two Alex Gonzalez's. For that price, I hope we're getting both...
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  8. #22
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Meh. Lugo is a pretty bad fielder, and you know that if the Reds signed him, he and his .330 OBP would be hitting second. At least Gonzalez will be doing all his damage from the #8 spot.
    Like I said, I want neither one on the Reds, but I'd rather be dead than watch Gonzalez hit second for 500 ABs.

    No way Krivsky signs Gonzalez for 5 mill a year to stow him in the eight spot. That'll be held down by a Bowden or an O'Brien leftover; Big K will want to showcase his blockbuster.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 11-17-2006 at 09:51 AM.

  9. #23
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Like I said, I want neither one on the Reds, but I'd rather be dead than watch Gonzalez hit second for 500 ABs.
    Gonzalez won't hit second, because he's got a reputation as a "glove man". Narron wouldn't dare cast him against type.

    If you believe in Win Shares, Lugo only put up 3 more total Win Shares (offense + defense) than Gonzalez last season. $3 million is a lot for 3 measley Win Shares.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  10. #24
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    $5M/year is too much. This FA market is out of control. There has to be a slick fielding SS somewhere that'll come cheaper. Perhaps through Rule 5.

    I can't see dropping $15M for three years. I don't care how good a glove he has.

    Finding a better hitting, decent glove at 2B (and shifting Phillips to SS) is a better option then this rumored deal.

  11. #25
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    My worry about Gonzalez is that he's going to be 30 before next season. He's all glove. I don't mind that, but if that glove goes downhill in his 30s, as gloves often do, then you're talking about adding an anchor to your team.

    My take is Gonzalez would be fine on a one-year deal like what he had with the Red Sox. That way you're not married to him if the one thing he does well diminishes. Gonzalez needs to be the type of player you can walk away from on a moment's notice. Plus, if you lose him after a year, it's not like he's difficult to replace.

    Anyway, if the Reds get an all-glove SS like Gonzalez, they'd better understand that the other seven position players need to produce like gangbusters in order to cover for him. If the Reds sign Gonzalez and then deal Dunn away, ultimately winding up with an offensive downgrade in the OF, then you're talking about a scary bad offense.
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  12. #26
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    I'd love to have Gonzalez instead of Castro - but neither of them deserves 500 AB. I've given up on the money side of things -- this market is crazy. I just don't want a sub .700 OPS guy getting that many AB regardless of how good his defense is.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #27
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    My worry about Gonzalez is that he's going to be 30 before next season. He's all glove. I don't mind that, but if that glove goes downhill in his 30s, as gloves often do, then you're talking about adding an anchor to your team.

    My take is Gonzalez would be fine on a one-year deal like what he had with the Red Sox. That way you're not married to him if the one thing he does well diminishes. Gonzalez needs to be the type of player you can walk away from on a moment's notice. Plus, if you lose him after a year, it's not like he's difficult to replace.

    Anyway, if the Reds get an all-glove SS like Gonzalez, they'd better understand that the other seven position players need to produce like gangbusters in order to cover for him. If the Reds sign Gonzalez and then deal Dunn away, ultimately winding up with an offensive downgrade in the OF, then you're talking about a scary bad offense.

    Including a scary bad offense is the unknown of pitching.

    It wouldn't be pretty in these parts - almost Kansas City-Like.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  14. #28
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    You could probably get Loretta cheaper, he plays solid defense at 2B and has some idea about what to do with a bat.

    Unless Wayne is really against BP at SS?

  15. #29
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Problem is there aren't too many shortstops available either by free agency or trade that have the range and glove that Gonzalez has. And do you think you'll be able to sign either Adam Kennedy or Belliard for less than 5 million a season, while shifting Phillips to shortstop?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  16. #30
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds???

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    I would cry if this is what Krivsky thinks is a good option.

    PLEASE be the White Sox!!

    His 06 numbers:

    .255 .299 .397 .696
    What are those numbers in comparison to the league average for SS's?

    I know they are somewhat low, but would it be a solid improvement to our middle INF defense? Is that a plus that should be factored into the equation other then looking at a player's OPS?

    Why is that always the first thing many seem to look at on a player?

    OPS alone is not the most reliable and dependable stat for getting a total evaluation of a player. IMHO, it's not a "tell-all" stat.

    But I also agree with M2. If the offense is there around a player like Gonzalez, and can make up for that "lack", then I see nothing wrong when that player has a solid glove.

    I just wouldn't commit to him long term.
    Last edited by GAC; 11-17-2006 at 10:11 AM.
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