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Thread: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

  1. #346
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    I thought W/L was a bad metric by which to measure a pitcher's effectiveness?
    And RSAA doesn't take account for that.

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  3. #347
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    A no brainer that 29 other teams passed on.
    He didn't pass through waivers. He was designated for assignment.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  4. #348
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    There are more average bullpen arms available than young, above-average everyday players.
    What above average everyday players did we have that we do not have now?

  5. #349
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    I'd like to see two starters come in and unceremoniously unseat the two Pretenders to the Throne: Lohse and Milton.

  6. #350
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think that Nats trade freaked out a lot of people. It was a thoroughly awful deal from the get go. It wasn't good in theory, it didn't work in practice and it's put the team two steps back heading into the offseason (where there'd be a burgeoning market for guys like Lopez and Kearns).

    IMO that put a taint on Krivsky's other spastic, but harmless attempts to mine some player talent to keep the team in the hunt. Without the Nats trade, guys like Mays and Yan would be largely forgotten. Now they're emblematic of a deep seated problem to some folks.

    I still take comfort in the fact that Krivsky did more good in his first two months than DanO did in two years. He's certainly aggressive and active, which is good because he's got a lot to do. I like the Gonzalez signing (though I'm queasy about the third year) because it directly addresses something that desperately needed to be addressed. Gonzalez wouldn't have been my first choice, but I'm not going to fault Krivsky for getting a primo glove man when what he needed was a primo glove man.

    I understand it offers no comfort to those who have been (justifiably) worried about the offense, but it's possible Krivsky choked during his first in-season test as a GM and that he'll get back to making the Reds a better-rounded ballclub (and that includes offense) during the offseason.
    I'll give yoiu that. As I've said before, this winter will tell the tale. And everyone is entitled to a mistake now and then.

    What bothers me is we keep getting these signals from Castilinni and Krivsky that "we're going to spend what is neeed" in improve the club and instead we get Joe Mays and Alex Gonzalez.

    I know it's only been a few days since free agency, but it's time to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
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  7. #351
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    And RSAA doesn't take account for that.
    Ah. I misunderstood.

    And how does it reconcile with the numbers I posted, or are those league average too? I'm asking because I don't know.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #352
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    What above average everyday players did we have that we do not have now?
    We've been down that road many times.

    Kearns and Lopez were both in the MLB top 10 in OPS at their respective positions at the time of the trade.

    I know Kearns was fat and wasn't Joe Dimaggio and Lopez couldn't field and had tattoos and all the other reasons some Reds fans hated them, but the fact remains that they were above average performers on offense.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  9. #353
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Ah. I misunderstood.

    And how does it reconcile with the numbers I posted, or are those league average too? I'm asking because I don't know.
    I don't know, but here's what TB formula arises from (and that's what RSAA is based on)

    Code:
                                    League ERA
    PITCHING RUNS = Innings Pitched x -----------  - ER.
                                          9
    The factor (League ERA/9) measures the average runs allowed per inning for all teams in the league. This value is multiplied by the number of innings pitched by that pitcher --- this product represents the number of runs that pitcher would allow over the season if he was average. Last, one subtracts the actual earned runs (ER) the pitcher allowed for that season. If the pitching runs is larger than 0, then this pitcher is better than average. This new measure appears to be useful in measuring the efficiency and durability of a pitcher.

  10. #354
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As for those who feel that guys like Medlock were a better answer in 2005, the guy hasn't even pitched that well in the Arizona Fall League. Krivsky obviously believes that a player needs a certain level of experience in most cases. And if Medlock had been called up and failed, as is likely, we would have heard that this is another Brian Reith situation. You can't win.
    Salmon and Shearn were also available.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  11. #355
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Salmon and Shearn were also available.

    I don't have handy a copy of BA's handbook from last year. Were either Salmon or Shearn among the Reds' top 30 prospects?

  12. #356
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    GAC, I think we agree up until this point. This franchise is at a stage where they either need to get some front line players to make a push or to basically start from scratch. If there isn't anyone available that will get this team to the next level, then don't sign Gonzalez. Use that money elsewhere. Put it in the bank until next year. Draft the best player available next season, no matter what their demands are. Start expanidng the international scouting and drop millions there.

    It's like the Royals going out and getting Zito this season. What difference does it make? A few more wins?

  13. #357
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Question: Would you have signed Davey Concepcion who had a career OPS of sub-700?

    If I were to put Davey's numbers up here, without identifying the player, alot of people on here would scream "marginal player. Pass!"

    Thats a bad analogy GAC.

    Would you admit that baseball today is different today than 20 years ago? How bout 30 years ago? Are stadiums today different than 30 years ago?

    The simple fact is that in the 70's a team could win with black holes at certain positions because of the game. Today that might not be true. And, even if it were true, these Reds don't have Foster, Morgan, Bench, Perez, Griffey, Sr and Rose to offset a black hole or two.

    Not that saying this is a good signing or a bad signing (although anyone with an OBP under .300 even from the 8th spot in the lineup makes me lean towards the bad siging part, but I'll wait until I see what else Mr. Minnestoa Twins baseball does beforehand before I pass ultimate judgment), but what i am saying is that is a bad analogy.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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  14. #358
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    We've been down that road many times.

    Kearns and Lopez were both in the MLB top 10 in OPS at their respective positions at the time of the trade.

    I know Kearns was fat and wasn't Joe Dimaggio and Lopez couldn't field and had tattoos and all the other reasons some Reds fans hated them, but the fact remains that they were above average performers on offense.
    You just did a bait and switch. Your previous post said "above average everyday players." Now, you are referring to "above average performers on offense." Which is it, since "everday players" entails when these guys take the field as well, which we know drags the value of Lopez down to "average," at best. Then, you define "above average everyday players" based on half a season of offensive performance? There is no data that you can provide for those two, on a historical basis, that qualifies them by some measure of "above average everyday players." You sure do have me confused as to what the criteria are for an "above average everyday player." I never was very good at shooting those moving duckies.

  15. #359
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    GAC, I think we agree up until this point. This franchise is at a stage where they either need to get some front line players to make a push or to basically start from scratch. If there isn't anyone available that will get this team to the next level, then don't sign Gonzalez. Use that money elsewhere. Put it in the bank until next year. Draft the best player available next season, no matter what their demands are. Start expanidng the international scouting and drop millions there.

    It's like the Royals going out and getting Zito this season. What difference does it make? A few more wins?
    Edabbs, I think I understand where you are comming from, but would Cincinnati fandom, especially Redszone, sit idley by for the length of time it would take to invest millions in scounting and the farm systems and endoure how many ever more years of crappy teams until the effects started to show?

    Unfortuntaley having to play baseball, and win some games while rebuilding makes is (1) much more difficult and (2) much more lengthy process.

    I don't think it's feasable for them to announce a "5 year plan" sort of thing and then sit back for 4 more years of dreck.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  16. #360
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    Re: Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

    2/09/07
    Last edited by Ga_Red; 02-09-2007 at 03:44 AM.


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