Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 132

Thread: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

  1. #46
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    1,866

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    I always liked Alex when he was with the Marlins. Seemed like he always had some big hits and Homers.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    1,362

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    Just FYI on Pierre... You may want to turn your heads this will make you sick...

    http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/sto...1/14/184844/04
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2662062


    If he gets this Dunn's contract looks like a steal.
    Not if his stats continue their freefall.

  4. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    206

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Bottom line, shortstop traditionally has not been a big offensive position. But it is a very important defensive position. No one questions this guy's defense. For that reason, I say it is a very good signing. We have not had a good defensive SS since Barry. We are now awesome defensively up the middle with Gonzalez and Phillips. If Gonzo hits 260 and plays great defense, I will be very happy. Now let's see what happens next to improve the offense and the pitching. Let's give Wayne some more time this offseason to see what else he does. We all have seen that he is not afraid to make a move.

  5. #49
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,314

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Seriously though, did it really take that much money to sign a guy who can't hit?

    Here is Wayne's quote after the July debacle. I'm guessing we see a quote like this during the signing announcement. My changes are in parenthesis:

    Said Krivsky: "We had to upgrade the bullpen (defense). You can see by the price we paid what the market is. I think for us to compete in the second half (2007), we had to upgrade the bullpen (defense). It's very difficult to get quality pitchers (defenders) for the back end of the game (middle infield) like a Bray and Majewski (Gonzalez). We think they're (he's) two (one) key pieces for our bullpen (defense)."

  6. #50
    Member Topcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,934

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Seriously though, did it really take that much money to sign a guy who can't hit?

    Here is Wayne's quote after the July debacle. I'm guessing we see a quote like this during the signing announcement. My changes are in parenthesis:

    Said Krivsky: "We had to upgrade the bullpen (defense). You can see by the price we paid what the market is. I think for us to compete in the second half (2007), we had to upgrade the bullpen (defense). It's very difficult to get quality pitchers (defenders) for the back end of the game (middle infield) like a Bray and Majewski (Gonzalez). We think they're (he's) two (one) key pieces for our bullpen (defense)."

    My question is this? Do you dispute that ? Second of all this cost the Red's only $$$ and with the new satelite deal $$$$ coming in, I can not see any down side to this deal at all.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

  7. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    1,362

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Seriously though, did it really take that much money to sign a guy who can't hit?

    Here is Wayne's quote after the July debacle. I'm guessing we see a quote like this during the signing announcement. My changes are in parenthesis:

    Said Krivsky: "We had to upgrade the bullpen (defense). You can see by the price we paid what the market is. I think for us to compete in the second half (2007), we had to upgrade the bullpen (defense). It's very difficult to get quality pitchers (defenders) for the back end of the game (middle infield) like a Bray and Majewski (Gonzalez). We think they're (he's) two (one) key pieces for our bullpen (defense)."
    The only other free agent shortstop that the Reds could have signed was Julio Lugo. Lugo is going to make at least twice what Gonzalez will make. Is Lugo twice the player? No. Gonzalez should have won the GG in the AL this season. Lugo is just not as good defensively. As far as hitting goes, Lugo's career OPS is just 58 points higher than Gonzalez. The Reds got Gold Glove defense and slightly less offense for half the price of what Lugo would cost and who's to say Gonzalez won't be better this year playing in GABP? Look at Gonzalez's 2003-2004 seasons, he's got some pop in his bat. You can't have fantasy studs at every position offensively. Look at Cesar Geronimo's offensive numbers the BRM years. Not real good but the Reds had a Gold Glove centerfielder. Look at Johnny Bench in 1976. Pretty wretched OPS there but you have the best defensive catcher ever behind the plate. So you accept the numbers and know that God help the runner who wants to steal on Johnny Bench. Hitting, pitching, and defense are all equal parts of a winning franchise. You can't sacrifice defense for offense all the time. And when you do sacrifice the defense, the pitching suffers. It's all equally important. Wayne Krivsky made a smart signing, the kind a good GM makes.

  8. #52
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,967

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    I like this signing. 5M per year is a decent deal for Gonzo. The main problem is 3 years, but in today's market, even 35 year old relievers get 3 year contracts. Hopefully Gonzo's range doesn't go too far south for the remainder of the contract.

    Like others have said, if Krivsky is trying this hard to improve the defense, then Griffey better be moved out of CF. Otherwise our defense is still going to be a problem.

    It's a bit of risky deal, but based on the alternatives to play 2nd/SS, I think this move helps us the most and isn't terribly expensive. Plus we don't have to move Phillips to SS, which will also give us a boost defensively at 2nd base compared to the alternatives.

  9. #53
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    WK addressed the SS position, which he had to do. He obviously decided that a trade wasn't the way to go and he probably took the best available option. We'll see how it works out.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #54
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,314

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath View Post
    The only other free agent shortstop that the Reds could have signed was Julio Lugo. Lugo is going to make at least twice what Gonzalez will make. Is Lugo twice the player? No. Gonzalez should have won the GG in the AL this season. Lugo is just not as good defensively. As far as hitting goes, Lugo's career OPS is just 58 points higher than Gonzalez. The Reds got Gold Glove defense and slightly less offense for half the price of what Lugo would cost and who's to say Gonzalez won't be better this year playing in GABP? Look at Gonzalez's 2003-2004 seasons, he's got some pop in his bat. You can't have fantasy studs at every position offensively. Look at Cesar Geronimo's offensive numbers the BRM years. Not real good but the Reds had a Gold Glove centerfielder. Look at Johnny Bench in 1976. Pretty wretched OPS there but you have the best defensive catcher ever behind the plate. So you accept the numbers and know that God help the runner who wants to steal on Johnny Bench. Hitting, pitching, and defense are all equal parts of a winning franchise. You can't sacrifice defense for offense all the time. And when you do sacrifice the defense, the pitching suffers. It's all equally important. Wayne Krivsky made a smart signing, the kind a good GM makes.
    With all due respect, give me a break.

    1) No problem with Geronimo, but let me know who fills the roles of Morgan, Bench, Rose, Perez and Foster on the 2007 team.

    2) In 2004, Gonzalez had 23 HRs and hit .232. How many .250 hitters does this team need? Is there anyone on the team right now who we can say has a more than 50% chance of hitting .300?

    3) Do you honestly believe that Lugo is going to get $10 million per year?

    4) I don't have as much as a problem with Gonzalez as I do with the contract offer. $5 million per? That's a lot of money for a team with payroll constraints. AGon won't help Kyle Lohse on the mound, unless he can play in the bleachers.

  11. #55
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,314

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
    My question is this? Do you dispute that ? Second of all this cost the Red's only $$$ and with the new satelite deal $$$$ coming in, I can not see any down side to this deal at all.
    No downside? Who is pitching and hitting this year? Unless they all of a sudden will be boosting payroll by $50 mil, I see this contract hindering filling the other roles.

  12. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    3,642

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    This organization just continues to get dumber and dumber. Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, it does. .299 OBP last year for Gonzalez. Awful. And you just know Narron will bat him second.

    Wayne Krivsky has managed to turn this team from a offensive juggernaut to one of the worst hitting teams in baseball in less than a year. Impressive.
    There is more to the game than just offense, Gonzalez is a very good defender and he plays the most important defensive position. Now if Wayne can get a centerfielder who can flat out go get it he improved our pitching staff without getting a pitcher.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  13. #57
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,967

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    Now if Wayne can get a centerfielder who can flat out go get it he improved our pitching staff without getting a pitcher.
    He's already got one.

  14. #58
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,290

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I am hoping and praying Votto steals Hatte's job in spring training.

    I think we could use another outfield bat, unless we play Deno in CF. Playing Denorfia in RF hurts us offensively more then it helps us defensively. Now if you play him in CF, that is a different story.
    I'm not of the mind, as many are here on RZ, that it's a given the Hatteberg will suck next year. I understand that he's advancing in age and it's getting to be late in his career.

    Now that said, I don't necessarily think he'll be the starter all next season. I fully expect Votto (and Homer too) to start in Louisville out of spring training and perhaps debut during the '07 season. I still think Wayne doesn't much care for skipping levels. We'll see if that is what happens.

  15. #59
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,290

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Gonzelez hit 23 homers in '04? The Reds have only had two shortstops with that many or more - Lopez in '05 and Larkin with 35 in 1996. Twenty-three dingers is not shabby.

  16. #60
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,183

    Re: Gammons reports reds sign Alex Gonzalez

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath View Post
    The only other free agent shortstop that the Reds could have signed was Julio Lugo. Lugo is going to make at least twice what Gonzalez will make. Is Lugo twice the player? No. Gonzalez should have won the GG in the AL this season. Lugo is just not as good defensively. As far as hitting goes, Lugo's career OPS is just 58 points higher than Gonzalez. The Reds got Gold Glove defense and slightly less offense for half the price of what Lugo would cost and who's to say Gonzalez won't be better this year playing in GABP? Look at Gonzalez's 2003-2004 seasons, he's got some pop in his bat. You can't have fantasy studs at every position offensively. Look at Cesar Geronimo's offensive numbers the BRM years. Not real good but the Reds had a Gold Glove centerfielder. Look at Johnny Bench in 1976. Pretty wretched OPS there but you have the best defensive catcher ever behind the plate. So you accept the numbers and know that God help the runner who wants to steal on Johnny Bench. Hitting, pitching, and defense are all equal parts of a winning franchise. You can't sacrifice defense for offense all the time. And when you do sacrifice the defense, the pitching suffers. It's all equally important. Wayne Krivsky made a smart signing, the kind a good GM makes.
    You're right. You can't get every thing from every position, and if you're going to go for defense only somehwere, SS is a good place to do it. However, the problem is that Krivksy current isn't getting the offense he'll need from 1B, nor RF (if Griffey moves there). Let's look at that '76 team (which scored 857 runs(

    Code:
    Pos	Player		BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	SB	CS	OPS+
    ---	-------------------+	+-----	+-----	+-----	+---	+---	+----+
    2B	Joe Morgan	0.320	0.444	0.576	1.020	60	9	187
    OF	George Foster	0.306	0.364	0.530	0.894	17	3	150
    3B	Pete Rose	0.323	0.404	0.450	0.854	9	5	141
    OF	Ken Griffey	0.336	0.401	0.450	0.851	34	11	140
    OF	Cesar Geronimo	0.307	0.382	0.414	0.796	22	5	125
    1B	Tony Perez	0.260	0.328	0.452	0.780	10	5	118
    C	Johnny Bench	0.234	0.348	0.394	0.742	13	2	109
    SS	Dave Concepcion	0.281	0.335	0.401	0.736	21	10	107
    Notice the absolute machine that is Joe Morgan. Dunn's career OPS was closer to Bench's in 76 the Morgan. Notice that everybody's OPS was above league average, including Bench's. League average OPS was .709. Notice that 5 guys got on base at a .362 clip or better. That team had all world defenders at 4 positions: C, 1B, 2B, SS. In fact, if you look at that team, you'll see it may have been one of the most well balanced Reds offenses in team history.

    Meanwhile, Alex Gonzalez, in his best year, has an OPS+ of 100 (exactly league average). His career OPS+ is 78 -- 22% worse than the league average. This isn't a guy who is just below average, or mediocre, offensively. He's plain ol' bad -- and most defensive metrics show that he's not as good a fielder as his reputation. I know our options are limited. I know he improves our defense. But I'm not yet convinced that the value he adds defensively makes up for his offensive shortcomings. I'm willing to see the full picture of WK's offseason. However, if we're unable to get another competent arm because we're 5 million short, I'll be the first to complain.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 11-18-2006 at 08:34 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25