Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

[vaticanplum]

This move would bake my cookies. Love it. It's not a bad price either in my opinion.

Given their current defense situation, their pitching, and the park in which they play, the Reds are in need of a top-flight defensive shortstop as much as about any team in baseball. Jump all over me for this if you want, but I don't really give a crap about the offensive prowess of a shortstop if he's that good defensively. It's the position where I care about defense the most apart from center field and maybe catcher. This would be a very good step towards improving the team.

Now, of course the Reds have a separate offense problem to deal with, but that's the case regardless of whether they go after Gonzalez or not. Frankly I just don't think this is the place on the field to fix that. A good defensive guy at that position in that park is an absolute necessity, and to find a guy who's that PLUS a real offensive gem at a good price is going to be pretty much impossible. Getting a good defensive player at shortstop frees up the Reds a bit to focus on the pitching and offense. I also think that a move like this would be further indication that Dunn is staying put.

[paulrichjr]

Sure. But what if 2 years doesn't get it done? It's been reported Gonzalez wants four years. Do you really walk away over that third year and enter a cycle of scavenging for Counsells and Guzmans every winter?

I think everyone needs to realize that teams have a lot of money and $5 million ain't what it used to be. I think signing him for 2 years as the regular SS for $5 million and then using him as the "Juan Castro" his last year would be fine. I just hope (and no one has said this) that Krivs doesn't cave in and give him $17-$20 million for 3 years or something to make this deal happen.


By the way, I hear Barry Larkin is in real good shape and might consider a come back. (JK) I think we have been spoiled by that guy for a long time...

[deltachi8]

As stated above, as long as it's not "THE" move, I'm fine with it. Though I think Phillips would be a very good SS, the pair will make a very nice defensive tandem.

[redsandrails]

FCB, you are right about how Wayne is good at finding bargain basement offense (Ross, Phillips, Hatteburg, etc.) but I mean his treatment of starting pitching has not been bad either (Arroyo, Lohse). Lohse is not a bad player but just a solid #4-5 option and considering the market this past deadline, not really all too horrible.

Obviously relief pitching is his fatal flaw, but even so it has been a collection of injuries that hurt him (Guardado, Majewski). S.S. was a great pickup and Bray was not bad at times and a solid optino down the road. Ryan Franklin was not a good pickup but hey, he was just misused by Narron. Cormier was ineffective but there really weren't too many other options at the time.

[gm]

I find it odd to be on this side of the arguement, but don't we have a slick fielding, .250 hitting SS in Juan Castro? --or, even considering giving Castro a shot at SS (he hit .280 plus last year after coming to Cincy)

Castro would never stay healthy enough to be the regular SS. Juan's back wouldn't take the daily pounding.

[Falls City Beer]

FCB, you are right about how Wayne is good at finding bargain basement offense (Ross, Phillips, Hatteburg, etc.) but I mean his treatment of starting pitching has not been bad either (Arroyo, Lohse). Lohse is not a bad player but just a solid #4-5 option and considering the market this past deadline, not really all too horrible.
.

I'll be nice: Lohse is awful. He's a poor man's Brett Tomko.

But Arroyo was certainly and obviously a good pickup.

[mth123]

A big part of the problem is that the team isn't a "judy hitter here; a judy hitter there," the team is slowly becoming overrun with weak sticks. They need some serious thunder in the lineup. It now becomes incumbent to really track down a first baseman who thumps or a right fielder who mashes if they sign Gonzalez. Putting Jr. in right or Hatteberg at first with guys like Phillips and Deno and Gonzalez in the lineup, and all of the sudden you're scoring 600 runs next year, also known as the Pittsburgh Redux.

AMEN. What makes every option available to the Reds undesirable is Scott Hatteberg's lack of power at 1B. A player with some power there would allow, as Cyclone put it, "the best defensive up the middle in the league of Gonzalez, Phillips and Deno" to be a strength rather than the liability we see it as. We're unimpressed now because we fear the lack of offensive production. The slick fielding middle of the diamond players shouldn't have to make-up for the lack of offense of the lesser fielders at the corners. Corner players are paid to be offensive players. The Reds haven't had a true power player at 1b since Tony Perez. Larkin and Lopez had enough pop from SS to cover for the problem. The Reds don't have that luxury anymore.

A 1B with power would make it all work acceptably. I say sign Gonzalez and get a stop gap 1B with pop until Votto is ready. Trade Freel for that #3 starter.

[RedsManRick]

Gonzalez has had 179 AB's in Fenway last year. He's played in Florida (a pitchers park) his whole career. It's not impossible that he could get an Aurilia/Randa boost moving to Cincy, as he's a similiar type hitter (occasional power) as those 2.

Twins had pitching and defense, yes. But look at how many runs they scored... and how well they did went they didn't score as much.

[vaticanplum]

How much power can we expect Phillips and Encarnacion to have on their best days? (note: this is bereft of snark, I'm genuinely trying to gauge what we'll be working with here.) What, if anything, can we expect a good hitting coach to coax out of them? Is it possible for the Reds of all teams to end up as an overall good hitting team without a lot of power? I'm just thinking aloud here, because I think that's a good point about Hatteberg, but he's not going anywhere, so I'm trying to think of clever ways this offense could be built. Though I've had a few drinks so I'm sorry if these are rambling questions.

[mth123]

How much power can we expect Phillips and Encarnacion to have on their best days? (note: this is bereft of snark, I'm genuinely trying to gauge what we'll be working with here.) What, if anything, can we expect a good hitting coach to coax out of them? Is it possible for the Reds of all teams to end up as an overall good hitting team without a lot of power? I'm just thinking aloud here, because I think that's a good point about Hatteberg, but he's not going anywhere, so I'm trying to think of clever ways this offense could be built. Though I've had a few drinks so I'm sorry if these are rambling questions.

I guess I think that to have a good offense you need at least 4 guys who are locks to slug .450 (just my observation, not some great baseball axiom passed down from the mountain). For the prototypical team these players play 1B, 3B, LF and RF. This team has Dunn, EE and if he stays healthy Griffey to do that. I also think its certain that Phillips, Hat and whoever plays SS won't. The catching tandem may do it, but I wouldn't count on it when fitting together my team. If Freel is the other OF he surely won't and Deno would need to prove it before saying he would. That leaves the Reds a slugger short IMO.

[IslandRed]

A 1B with power would make it all work acceptably. I say sign Gonzalez and get a stop gap 1B with pop until Votto is ready. Trade Freel for that #3 starter.

I'd feel a lot better about Hatteberg as the stopgap if we found a lefty-killer to platoon with him and keep him fresh, much as we used Aurilia in that role last season. I don't think it's a coincidence that when Aurilia start logging a lot of late-season starts at other positions and Hatteberg had to play every day, his production tailed off dramatically.

[mth123]

I'd feel a lot better about Hatteberg as the stopgap if we found a lefty-killer to platoon with him and keep him fresh, much as we used Aurilia in that role last season. I don't think it's a coincidence that when Aurilia start logging a lot of late-season starts at other positions and Hatteberg had to play every day, his production tailed off dramatically.

Agree. Lacking a complete upgrade, a RH hitter with a little pop who hits lefties is a must. Eduardo Perez would be my choice.

[edabbs44]

Agree. Lacking a complete upgrade, a RH hitter with a little pop who hits lefties is a must. Eduardo Perez would be my choice.

I wanted Eduardo last spring to go with Dunn @ 1st. I would still take him this year. A guy who hits LHPs well is extremely valuable when:

1) You have a LH 1st baseman
2) You are an NL team, b/c of all the subs.

WK, please sign him.

[reds44]

Ignore offense at your peril.

On a side note, though, I don't think Wayne Krivsky's shown any kind of ability to emulate the Ryan-constructed Twins in Cincinnati so far. Krivsky has virtually no eye for pitching, as the lion's share of his trades for pitching have been total disasters and his draft of pitchers was one of the worst in recent memory.

Strangely, what Krivsky's shown he CAN do is find offense.

Then there is Bronson Arroyo.

[reds44]

I guess I think that to have a good offense you need at least 4 guys who are locks to slug .450 (just my observation, not some great baseball axiom passed down from the mountain). For the prototypical team these players play 1B, 3B, LF and RF. This team has Dunn, EE and if he stays healthy Griffey to do that. I also think its certain that Phillips, Hat and whoever plays SS won't. The catching tandem may do it, but I wouldn't count on it when fitting together my team. If Freel is the other OF he surely won't and Deno would need to prove it before saying he would. That leaves the Reds a slugger short IMO.

If EE plays everyday he'll drive in more then 100 runs.

I would like to see EE and Dunn has the 3-4 hitters. You'll get over 200 RBI from them. If Griffey can play 120 games, there is 70 more from your 5 hitter.