Originally Posted by buckeyenut
duly noted and fixed.sorry.
duly noted and fixed.sorry.
Could agree more with both of these comments, I just wish I didn't feel like we were such a bottom feeder. Whatever slips past all the bigger fish we'll suck on it a good long time (see extensive list of retread pitchers) and decide if it's digestable.
Yet many of these big FA contracts are going out to retread players. Adam Eaton? Juan Pierre? Gary Mathews Jr? It's not like it's the cream of the crop that's being picked up. And those we would consider cream are being locked up with franchise crippling contracts.
Last edited by Ltlabner; 11-28-2006 at 09:42 PM.
I just feel that Krivsky will build this team the right way. Terry Ryan didn't turn the Twins into a big time success over night, and the same can be said for the A's and Billy Beane. Krivsky is going to need time to turn this around, to get the farm system kicking, and time to evaluate player's that will help us, and player's that will be traded for whatever needs we might lack. I'm very realistic in knowing that this team probably won't compete for much in 2007, but I think the future still looks pretty good. I just can't see this current regime accepting a loser. Hopefully my optimism pays off... too often though it comes back to bite me in the behind.
Yes.
It's nice going into the offseason to not be looking for starters #1-4.
Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand
See my earlier post. The core of this Reds team will be gone after 2008, and the current crop of prospects won't fill all those holes. If Krivsky doesn't plan on seriously competing in 2007, he needs to blow everything up -- trade Arroyo, Harang, Dunn, and Freel for high-level prospects and dump Griffey for pennies.
"Trading Arroyo and Harang is crazy," you'll say.
No, crazy is keeping them in the fold, not paying for any more talent, and trying to eek out 82 wins a year for the next two seasons. Trading those guys would bring in some serious major-league ready prospects with real talent for 2008-2009.
Personally, I'd rather see Krivsky throw some money around and try to win it all in 2007, before the core of the team disappears. But if that doesn't happen, I'd rather he get peak value for those players.
"I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
Trading Harang is crazy, I'd say.
The Reds need to take their FSN money and put it toward buying out Harang's arb eligible years and locking him up long term....
Harang+Homer= reasonable future IMHO....
I want to see if Dunn is traded, and for what, before making any bold pronouncements about right direction or wrong direction.
I'm wondering if Dunn would bring a bigger and better return if they waited until mid-season, rather than now, to trade him. If Dunn has a good first half and the Reds are out of contention (both are distinct possibilities) then surely some contending team desperate for left-handed pop would pay handsomely.
Now, however, many teams might look at those strikeout totals and RISP average and question how much they really want the guy.
What you are writing does not avoid certain possibilities that this team will face in the seasons to come.
When you speak of the core players eventually moving on, or if Krivsky cannot afford to upgrade the team now to win, then he needs to use his player resources to rebuild the team, I believe makes a great deal of sense. So many of us argue or retort while leaving out what you have written on these two pages, (fail to address) and when we (posters) leave out what you are not avoiding and are not looking away from, our points seem somewhat void.
You make a great deal of sense and it does seem like the most realistic path for Krivsky to take to improve the product in Cincinnati.
Last edited by Spring~Fields; 11-29-2006 at 06:44 AM.
Or maybe instead of diving into the FA Pool, he should use his increased payroll to lock-up Dunn, Arroyo and Harang to hold the window open until real help arrives (big contracts off the books, Bailey, Votto and Bruce up and helping).
Of course, if they are intent on leaving then the trade and rebuild makes perfect sense.
That substitution of spending available funds to secure the pitchers when they cost so much in today’s market seems to have a lot of merit. That day is coming and the Harang and Arroyo that we witnessed last year would be very difficult to replace realistically with today's prices for reliable pitchers. Of course I don't know what their "intent" might be, and when you say "lock-up" do you mean contracts longer than three years?
I have a few concerns with the burn it down idea. I just posted something simular in a different thread so here's the short version.
1) Do we trust our current scouting staff to find the "almost ready" prospects we'll need to count on to be successfull down the road? Wayne's only had since the end of last season to deal with neglect dating back to the mid 1980's.
2) Wayne will be gone (IMO) long before the end of the 5 year plan. It's just how things work. So then a new guy comes in, and the whole process starts over. It never ends.
3) We need extra revenue now. The only way to this is increased attendence which will only come through winning teams. We all dissagree on how Wayne is building a winning team for both now and later (at the same time), but he has to walk this tightrope to woo back casual fans.
Last edited by Ltlabner; 11-29-2006 at 07:50 AM.
I agree more with trying to rebuild than trying to contend in 2007.
First of all, Krivsky doesn't have the money to throw around to build a contender. And if he did, besides Schmidt, who would we get that would actually make this team world championship worthy? I think there's too many significant holes.
Second, blowing the team up makes more sense for right now. However, I wouldn't trade Harang and Arroyo if you're trying to compete in 2008 and 2009. Sign Harang long-term around $8 million/yr. I think that's reasonable. And with Arroyo, he's locked up for 2 more years. Yes, his value is high right now, but he's extremely affordable and if he doesn't repeat this year again, he may be somewhat affordable again in a couple of years. Pitching leads to championships, so I would keep those two as long as possible.
Third, trading Dunn, Freel, and Griffey makes sense. Obviously, Dunn would bring back a nice return. And in this market, Freel and Griffey might get alot more in return than previously expected. You never know, if I was Wayne, I would definitely try to trade both Freel and Griffey along with Dunn if the return is right.
"....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421
Yes. My feelings to a tee.
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
Trading Dunn, Freel, and Griffey only makes sense if you're blowing up the roster, because their offense (mostly Dunn's and Freel's) can't be easily replaced. Trading those three and keeping Arroyo and Harang would leave the 2007 and 2008 Reds struggling for those 82 wins I was talking about. And would Harang and Arroyo be willing to sign long-term deals on a .500 team when they can break the bank and pitch for the Red Sox or Yankees?
It's not that I wouldn't offer Arroyo and Harang long-term deals -- I just think they're planning on going the free agent route (Arroyo especially). That means the clock is ticking.
"I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
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