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Thread: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

  1. #16
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath View Post
    You call yourself a realist with FCB? Especially after your example, I beg to differ. Everyone knows that Uncle Miltie was a DanO signing and it was the "market rate" according to the article redsmetz posted. Milton has done nothing. I'm pretty sure that he is gone after this contract, or if has a pretty good start next year he could be tradebait.

    IMHO - I think you and FCB are the side of whatever the FO does isn't positive. It's not a slam on you, but since you labeled me, I'll label you. (With apologies to Metallica).
    Not at all. But there comes a time when you watch move after move after move and you begin to wonder what is going on. I cannot in any way justify a lot of his moves and that's taking away the Lopez-Kearns trade. The Narron extension being number one with me.

    And to tell you the truth, I didn't have you in mind when I typed that. I didn't have anyone in mind. I think it's obvious that all over this board in both sections that some are tickled pink with what has gone on so far. I'm not one of them, especially when we keep getting this llip service about competing for championships. You're got going to do that with Gonzo, Lohse, and Moeller.
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  3. #17
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath View Post
    Has anyone thought that Lohse is going to be offered arbitration, or is he gone? Is a Lohse better than others out there? Are we basing our assumption that John Fay is a lazy reporter and assumes Lohse is back? Are we assuming that since he's an 'ex-Twin', that its assumed that he's back. Or, is he back because he's 27 and has a live arm?

    Let FO breathe now and then. Yikes.
    You beat me to the punch. Right now, the Reds have the rights to Lohse and I would say, for now, we should hang on to those rights. John Fay has suggested he'll get about 6M and I'm not sure he's wrong, but right now we've got the rights and he may well have trade value, particularly given the present market. We can trade him now if we want to and let someone else worry about the Arbitration issue too. Cutting him at this point would be foolish.

    When you look at how he compares to other pitchers, some of whom are contemporaries, he stacks up against him.

    Code:
          Kyle Lohse          2001-2006  6  54  62  .466 4.8644  184 163  10   4   3   0  971.3 1095  555  525 135  308  612  93
     969  Ricky Bones         1991-1996  6  51  62  .451 4.7193  166 149   3  10   1   0  944.0 1016  544  495 131  325  356  97
     969  Jose Lima           1994-2000  7  53  56  .486 4.8684  210 122  31   6   1   5  904.0  998  515  489 146  203  646  91
     965  Jeff Suppan         1995-2002  8  49  64  .434 5.0279  190 175   6  12   3   0 1088.3 1207  653  608 154  364  610  97 961  Chris Carpenter     1997-2002  6  49  50  .495 4.8273  152 135   6  12   5   0  870.7  984  520  467 111  331  612  98
     960  Jason Jennings      2001-2006  6  58  56  .509 4.7439  156 156   0   6   3   0  941.0 1032  530  496 103  425  622 102 957  Joel Pineiro        2000-2006  7  58  55  .513 4.4819  185 148  16   9   3   1  996.0 1033  524  496 115  327  658  96
     955  Jason Marquis       2000-2006  7  56  52  .519 4.5478  194 137  26   3   1   1  910.3  948  507  460 130  352  552  94
     954  Neal Heaton         1982-1987  6  52  66  .441 4.6165  186 148  25  21   6   8  978.7 1072  552  502 103  333  441  90
     954  Eric Milton         1998-2003  6  57  51  .528 4.7583  166 165   0   9   4   0  987.3 1000  557  522 149  269  715 100
     952  Ryan Dempster       1998-2004  7  51  56  .477 4.9905  184 156  10   8   2   2  984.7 1024

  4. #18
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

    You're got going to do that with Gonzo, Lohse, and Moeller.
    Or Chaney, Merritt or Hal King... but we get the point.

    More then 40% of a baseball roster is game for being dragged down for not fitting in a box labeled "Stars" it's hard to work up a sweat defending those types. Yet they are there every off season and in season.

  5. #19
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    Re: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Or Chaney, Merritt or Hal King... but we get the point.

    More then 40% of a baseball roster is game for being dragged down for not fitting in a box labeled "Stars" it's hard to work up a sweat defending those types. Yet they are there every off season and in season.
    Yet when you have two or three "stars" at most, and you're constantly tinkering with the back end of the roster, worrying is neither illogical nor unfounded.

  6. #20
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Yet when you have two or three "stars" at most, and you're constantly tinkering with the back end of the roster, worrying is neither illogical nor unfounded.
    Worrying ... no.

    Blanket complaining about every 5% move doesn't move the bus forward either. The 5% move is where the GM gets bit, usually because it leans towards the types they covet. For Bowden it was fleet CF and bats. For Krivsky it's defensive backups, catchers and middle relievers.

    Everyone has warts, every team has them.
    Last edited by westofyou; 12-01-2006 at 12:15 PM.

  7. #21
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Yet when you have two or three "stars" at most, and you're constantly tinkering with the back end of the roster, worrying is neither illogical nor unfounded.
    And out of the two or three 'stars' the Reds have, one has a low-value contract, one is an albatross who think he has to play CF, and one still wishes he's getting Boston paychecks.

    There are always roleplayers - but to get the steak to sizzle, you still have to butcher the cow.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  8. #22
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    Re: Bob Cast: You have to work hard - You have to work smart

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I totally agree, FCB.

    You know, there are three camps on here. One camp would fall on the side of RCast-Krivsky-etc no matter what they do. Another camp finds nothing positive in what they do. The third camp is sort of "watch-and-see," what I like to call realists--where you and I are firmly footed IMHO.

    I sometimes think that Cast-Krivsky could re-sign Eric Milton for $12+ million per year and some would say, "give them time--there is a plan and they've only been here x years/months/days." The other side would scream to high heavens on how stupid they are and how they're not long for this club, that the club will never win, and it can't be fixed. The rest of us are scratching our heads and saying, "what the heck is going on."

    Na, signing Milton to any deal would be suicide even by the "give them time" group. Harang or Arroyo would be a better example to use in this example. Both are good but I have my doubts that either woudl be worth 12 mil per year.

    When I first read this I thought you meant give Milton an offer of like 3 yrs for 12 mil rather than him taking the option. Save money in the short run and some like LA might be more willing to try for Milton at 4 mil per for 2+ yrs rather than Milton at 9 mil. Looking at some of the contracts being handed out...

    What would be everyone's opinion if the reds came to some agreement to save the money now with the idea of trying to get him to somewhere better suited for his ability (IE Oakland, LA, [insert other big ballpark teams here]).

    Anyways I look forward to hearing thoughts. And I wonder what camp people see me in the scale .
    Last edited by Slyder; 12-01-2006 at 02:02 PM.


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