For those that doubt Wayne.

[dunner13]

From MLBtraderumors.com

"Gotham: Red Still After Bonderman
According to Gotham Baseball, reporting from the Winter Meetings, the Reds are still trying to trade for Jeremy Bonderman. Unfortunately, the Tigers probably will not trade him. Wayne Krivsky is chasing a lesser option in Brian Bannister of the Mets. Last week, we reported that the Rockies and Mariners have interest in Bannister.

Of course, plenty of teams are still trying to trade for Jason Jennings. Those include the Mets, D'Backs, Astros, and Cards according to Gotham. Previously, the Rockies had received inquiries from the Cubs and Twins."


Waynes trying to get Bonderman or Bannister two very good young pitchers. I know many of you genius think that wayne should just show up at the winter meetings and offer freel, milton and cormier for bonderman and be able to get it done within five minutes. But it takes alot of work and I think this shows we have a GM who is targeting the right players and trying to improve the reds alot.

[Tom Servo]

Here's the full article:
http://www.gothambaseball.com/news/1165257764.php

Lots of Reds discussion. I'll note that I'd take Stanton for a little under 3 million a year everyday of the week over Juan Pierre and Gary Matthews Jr at $9 million and $10 million a year respectively.

[Edd Roush]

It's hard to think that Krivsky is doing a great job when baseball officials are so often criticizing his moves. Who knows how this thing will actually shake out?

[Redny]

Sounds like Jimbo is giving them the quotes.

[flyer85]

I don't doubt his ability to be acquire them, I doubt his ability to acquire them in a deal favorable to the Reds.

[Joseph]

Here's the thing about Wayne and 'The Trade', which thus far is the major thing on which we have to judge Mr. K.

The idea of the trade was not a bad one at all. Two young pitchers, one who has the potential to close, another who we could hope could be a Scott Sullivan rubber arm type. The problem is it didn't work. Had those guys pitched like expected, I don't think we would have nearly as much fault with 'The Trade'. I can't say he made a mistake in that honestly. I'm at times critical, and I do have my concerns about 'the plan' he might have, but I can't fault him for the thing most everyone seems to dislike him for here. It didn't work, there is no denying that, but it also wasn't a bad idea either. We dumped two solid, though not spectacular players for two young pitchers and a prospect.

I don't doubt he's out there trying hard to improve this team in the constraints of whatever budget we have.

Hell I don't even doubt that there IS a plan, I just wish I knew what it was. He's under no obligation to tell us though. Maybe that makes him a better GM than we've had in decades [not that its hard to accomplish] or maybe it makes him something else entirely, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Doesn't mean I won't be frustrated with him in the interim.

[flyer85]

The problem is it didn't work.

The problem was it was a bad idea. Trading everyday players and with a quality bat for young and inexperienced relievers(one with known arm issues, sorry Wayne but that was my first thought about Majewski) is in general a high risk/low return proposition. There is a reason that other than the top closers most relievers don't make much ... they are replaceable parts. Certainly neither Bray of Majewski have the kind of stuff as relievers that say "stud".

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally posted by Joseph
Here's the thing about Wayne and 'The Trade', which thus far is the major thing on which we have to judge Mr. K.

The idea of the trade was not a bad one at all. Two young pitchers, one who has the potential to close, another who we could hope could be a Scott Sullivan rubber arm type. The problem is it didn't work. Had those guys pitched like expected, I don't think we would have nearly as much fault with 'The Trade'. I can't say he made a mistake in that honestly. I'm at times critical, and I do have my concerns about 'the plan' he might have, but I can't fault him for the thing most everyone seems to dislike him for here. It didn't work, there is no denying that, but it also wasn't a bad idea either. We dumped two solid, though not spectacular players for two young pitchers and a prospect.

I don't doubt he's out there trying hard to improve this team in the constraints of whatever budget we have.

Hell I don't even doubt that there IS a plan, I just wish I knew what it was. He's under no obligation to tell us though. Maybe that makes him a better GM than we've had in decades [not that its hard to accomplish] or maybe it makes him something else entirely, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Doesn't mean I won't be frustrated with him in the interim.

I completely agree, except for one component. The real key here is that it hasn't worked Yet, people forget that these guys (Maj and Bray) are still plenty young enough to be what we would like out of them. And if they turn out to be above average (I say they will/are) then there are no losers in the deal. If Either Harris or Thompson can be solid to above (also decent chance of happening) then we win that deal IMO. I will be closely monitoring these 2 for the next year +. Thompson already has shown me a little something.

[flyer85]

Yet, people forget that these guys (Maj and Bray) are still plenty young enough to be what we would like out of them.

The issue is there is nothing in their track record or stuff to suggest that either will be special as a reliever. And relievers like that are simply replaceable parts.

[pedro]

I'm still not that concerned about the loss of Lopez. He's a lousy SS who can't hit lefties. It would have been nice to hang onto Kearns though.

[flyer85]

I'm still not that concerned about the loss of Lopez. He's a lousy SS who can't hit lefties.

... and had Boras as an agent. Every fron office in baseball knows what it means when a player has Boras as his represenstative.

Trading Kearns for a relief pitcher(unless the guy had lights out stuff like Broxton) is just ludicrous.

[Wheelhouse]

I'm of the camp that says the trade will work out on the Reds side--if Majewski heals and Bray develops. Then again it may be a wash if Kearns shows up to ST weighing 500 lbs. and Lopez returns to the Twilight Zone. Both are possibilities.

[vaticanplum]

Team with a capital T!!

I'm very surprised that hasn't been picked up on this forum, unless I missed it.

[Kc61]

The Reds opened their pocket books and replaced Lopez. They can replace Kearns too. In this era, you can fix up trade losses by spending.

Bray seems to be a good young reliever. No problem with him. Harris will fill a role. Clayton wasn't helpful but was a minor part of the deal. He wasn't staying here.

The whole issue is Majewski. He was the veteran reliever. He was going to be the eighth inning guy night after night. If he pitched as intended, the trade would be just fine.

The problem is he was ineffective and hurt. This is the reason the trade has failed so far. And while the Nats probably weren't forthcoming enough, Krivsky has to take some blame.

If Majewski turns it around, this will be ok. But after last season, I'm afraid to watch him try.

In the meantime, the Reds really need to do some business down in Orlando. I'm not looking for superstar names, but another starting pitcher is a must. I'm waiting.

[Bonzo]

Did anyone else notice Danys Baez is getting paid $6 million per year to be the set up man for the Orioles? It would seem that the price of relief pitching certainly has gone up, making "The Trade" at least a bit better for the Reds.