And half the Reds batters are better pitchers than Marquis!Originally Posted by redsupport
And half the Reds batters are better pitchers than Marquis!
Where we gonna go?
Yeah, we will really missed the boat on the Juan Pierre's and Gil Meche's.
The Rafael Sorianos and the Doug Davises....
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
them you mentioned ....no !
others that have been signed or traded for.......yes !
i heard on a chicago station(espn1000),the stros and sox had serious discussions on tavaras and bucholz(yeah spelled wrong) goin to sox for garland. Said talks have apparently broken off.
would reds fans be interested in garland for freel and ???
The sox are wanting to move McCarthy into rotation.
and I will add the David Delluccis, the Chad Bradfords
I heard Wayne was the last to leave Orlando, lurking behind at the Swan and Dolphin.
Seriously though, of course there will be quotes tomorrow (and there are one's in the papers already) where WK talks about how this isn't the only venue to acquire players. Then come January he'll be calling Rick White and Chris Hammond, asking if they have any interest in a minor league deal. This is starting to be like Groundhog Day, except it's Groundhog Year.
Zito hasn't signed.
In this market, there is no freaking way that teams aren't chasing after the man who is perceived by many to be the best free agent pitcher. And I don't care if you, reader, personally don't consider him to be that: it doesn't even matter. Perception seems to count for a lot this season. Even on the off-chance that you don't think Zito will help any given team, he is not likely to be viewed that way. In a world in which Gil Meche and Alfonso Soriano, among others, have signed to insane contracts, Zito is not likely to be viewed as overpaid unless he is signed for $35 million a year.
Thus, in my bastard geometrical proof:
Point 1. Zito stands to make a lot of money.
Point 2. Teams are spending a lot of money.
Point 3. Zito hasn't signed yet.
Point 4. no one has offered Zito money (highly unlikely) or
Point 4. Money has proven not to be enough for Zito to sign.
Point 5. Zito is open to personal appeal.
Point 6. There is nothing more personal than singing children.
Ok, whatever, my point is that Zito is still available and the Reds still need a starting pitcher. I don't know why the simplest solution to this dual dilemma isn't clear to everybody else.
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.
I missed them on the free agent list.
Still on the singing children angle, eh? Did you mention that to Wayne on Friday?
While Zito may love singing children, I'm guessing Boros isn't going to be moved so easily.
on Tomo Ohka for you Ohka nuts..
The Nationals have offered free agent Tomo Ohka a contract, but it's not quite to his liking.
Ohka may be looking for something similar to the one-year, $4 million contract Kip Wells received from the Cardinals. He would like to return to Washington, but the Nationals are admittedly going cheap.
I like that showing of some heart and can do.
I think the fans would appreciate it if the Reds did make an offer to a top performer even if he tossed it back across the table to them with a chuckle.
They know their finances and they could at least take a shot, step up to the plate throw their best pitch, even if it was rejected. It is a given that they can’t match large markets and of course some will correctly say that we or I don’t know if they did or didn’t make some offers, perhaps that is a part of the PR that needs a boost by letting the fans know that they do take their best shot even if it is rejected. We all look almost everyday to see if there is even a rumor worthy to get excited about, and to see or find next to nothing I don’t think is good.
Take their best shot, let the fans know that they did and if they are rejected or the price is too ridiculous then fine.
I didn't realize the free agent way was the only way. I'm talking about player movement, period.
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
Boras works for Zito. Not the other way around.
Last edited by vaticanplum; 12-07-2006 at 09:51 PM. Reason: too long and rambly
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.
I don't understand why Puffy never told us about that. I thought he was the figure skating expert.
I hear you, VP. Your ideas make me smile and not in a condescending way. I've said for the last several years that the Reds cannot compete dollar for dollar with the New Yorks or Chicagos or LAs. What they have to do is do other things better than those teams. Maybe it's singing children. Maybe it's having the best medical experts for the players. Perhaps it is having the best coaching staff for the players. Maybe they should have the best facilities in baseball. Or have players' families treated like royalty. I don't know but they have to have something more to offer besides money.
Sure, there's not much of a difference between $12M and $16M. None of these guys are going to starve because of $4M. But it's a way of keeping score. Player Z makes more than Player S and makes sure Player S knows about it. Might be a guy thing, I dunno. The Players Association and the agents love it cause if a Zito can get $15M a year, a guy like Meche can get $10M. A guy like Zito doesn't strike me as materialistic. But I'm sure he has given Boros his marching orders. Maybe he wants to stay on the west coast and pitch in a big ball park and surf. He can do all that in San Diego but not here. But I'm also sure he wants to be paid like one of the best pitchers in baseball and the Reds have said time and again that he is out of their league financially.
People complain about the Yankees throwing money at players. But you know as well as I do that NYC has different things to offer than Cincinnati does. If a player desires the national spotlight, New York is the place to be. A guy like Pedro Martinez may have wanted to pitch in NYC because of the large Dominican population there. He can't get that here for any amount of money. Every city has its advantages and disadvantages. What the Reds have to figure out is how to make their advantages work for them.
You and SF and everyone else who has said that the Reds need to take a shot are on the money. But just taking a shot and missing, while perhaps being good for the short term psyche of the fans, doesn't accomplish the goal. You keep shooting and if you keep missing, no one's going to care much when you shoot again. You have to hit the target every now and then. I think the Reds could afford Zito. I posted something about it last week. But even though Bob comes off as aggressive, deep down I still think he isn't any different than Carl in the sense that he's not going to take a big financial chance to make the team better. Say what you want about Carl but at least he gave the go ahead to get Jr. - which was a pretty big financial risk. The biggest thing Bob has done is bring back Thom Brennaman.
I wish you could translate your love for the Reds to players like Zito, VP. But if Texas is offering him $16M, the Mets $14M and the Reds $5M, I think that no matter how much he loves the Reds, he's going to go somewhere else.
Oh, definitely. If that's the case the Reds need to pony up minimum $12 million + awesomeness. You cannot insult players in what is a legitimate market, and without knowing the details of the Reds' finances, I think they could be spending a lot more money right now than they are. I just think that they need another angle too. I'm not sure that if they even had the money, it'd be enough.
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.
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