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Thread: Roush's Change in Philosophy

  1. #1
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Gloom and doom.

    Read any Redszone thread these days and you will be sure to catch this sentiment. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. I'm done with this thinking. I am ready to embrace the understanding that anything can and will happen in baseball.

    For some fans on this board, nothing but a World Championship is enough to keep them from calling for Krivsky/Narron/Catellini's head. Heck, a four-game losing streak will send some on here into depression. I think I can reasonably say that while the Reds winning a World Series would be fantastic, I think the best part of watching the Reds is eating a brat with some buddies and hoping to see something special.

    I guess the point I'm trying to convey is Redszone is reverting into a place where people come to vent in anger about the coming season, rather than collectively dreaming of what's possible. Any thread of a team signing another player to a reasonable contract turns into stupid Krivsky, we should have got him. We have to understand that despite what we think, the Reds aren't the greatest team in the minds of some free agents.

    We have to learn to enjoy the players we have, rather than bash them into oblivion. I love dreaming about the past and dreaming of what could be. I love looking back to June 30th of last year when Dunner hit a walk-off grand slam. The Reds had knocked off their rival and I can honestly say that was one of the greatest sports' moments of my life. I love thinking back to the game I was at later in the season when Ross hit the game-winning home run off the batter's eye.

    I wish I could come to Redszone and learn about those talented individuals who are lucky enough to don the Cincinnati red. I love learning about OPS and Win Shares from the great baseball minds who frequent these boards. However, I wish we could keep from being so negative.

    We are lucky to be reading about such a great game and sharing in a common interest. I wish we could recognize that baseball is a game of dreams and possibilites and that anything is possible in this game. You can use your Run Scored vs Run Against to vaguely gauge how our team is going to do next year, but you will never be able to truly fortel whether David Ross will be the next Mike Piazza or fade into oblivion.

    Let's cheer up, we have a good team, it may not be the Yankees, but frankly I'm happy it's not. Let's recognize that we're talking about baseball here and not anything more serious. Hell, baseball is just a game, right? We are talking about a shared love and not something that truly decides the fate of our lives.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    I agree with you and it is so so negative....all the time. I won't name names but some posters are closet Cardinal fans with a man love anything Larussa...lol!!!

    I think it is time for those people to be honest with themselves and come out of the closet so to speak........
    Last edited by sixfigure; 12-09-2006 at 02:12 AM.

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    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    You guys are going to get gutted for this for sure . But know I feel the same so maybe I will take some of the hit for ya.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Great I appreciate that.......now take it for the TEAM....lol!!

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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by sixfigure View Post
    Great I appreciate that.......now take it for the TEAM....lol!!

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    everyone has the right to give their own opinion. you have a right to your's and the negative posters have that right as well. I am a little of both sometimes. We all get different things out of the game, so it's not just to say how someone should enjoy or discuss it. Those posts that agree with everything the FO does are just as annoying as those that disagree with everything.

    One one hand, I agree with where you are coming from, but on the other, I am not and will never be satisfied with a .500 ball club. Some are, that's just not me.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Edd,

    I feel the way you do sometimes, but lately I've been one of the more negative posters on the board. I really haven't liked much that has gone on since July with these moves.

    I think the team lacks power, a 3rd starter and a closer. Going into the offseason I was somewhat hopeful that these needs would be addressed. I certainly understand the task facing a small market team like the Reds and I have been saying consistently that there isn't much decent pitching on the market and everything costs a lot of money. But none of that explains what we've seen this offseason.

    The Reds have signed 2 mediocre relievers who really don't offer much improvement from the fodder on hand, a dime a dozen defensive SS with no stick and anounced the intention to bring back Kyle Lohse in the rotation (at a probable cost of $6 Million). These things cost about $16 Million toward the 2007 payroll and haven't adequately addressed any of the needs IMO.

    I understand not having the money and that is reality. But the Reds spent enough money to at least improve in some areas and really haven't. I guess the defense is better with Gonzalez but that directly made the offense worse so what is really gained?

    Most of the negativity you read seems like a reflection of people's hopes being dashed. Everyone was waiting for a regime change to get this team out of its losing rut and most we're looking to this offseason to see that progress. Now that the winter meetings have come and gone, many are disillusioned. I know that I am. The winter isn't over, but, with the money committed in the way that it has been, the opportunity seems lost to me.

    But it won't stop me from paying attention and hoping for better. I'll also continue to comment about what has transpired or could transpire.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    While I understand your position, MTH123, I agree with the OP on this one. I think too often we forget it's a GAME. While these types of discussions used to take place down at the tavern in days gone by, now it's in the cyber-tavern and we get ourselves so heated up and no buddies at the bar to say "Johnny, calm down" or "Take it outside" etc. etc.

    There's a beauty to this game that no other gives. I think this team is still being put together like a puzzle. It may end up looking like something done by Picasso, but then, he was genius too and it worked.

    I think the folks that note that we're just a bit off from competing in this division are correct. Wayen's work isn't done - and the final product may not end up being a masterpiece, but let's enjoy it.

  10. #9
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Let's cheer up, we have a good team
    By what measure? The Reds were worse in the second half of last season than the first and they look to be a losing club in 2007 if some changes aren't made.

    We all love baseball and think it's fun to talk about the game, that's not the issue here. Yet the Reds aren't a good team as currently constituted and haven't been for years. Historically the divide we get around here is that a lot of folks need to say/believe/pretend the team is better than it is during the winter and spring in order to face the upcoming season while others don't care for that kind of artiface (I'm sure there's some who'd be perpetually unhappy, but I can't believe that's anything more than a fraction of a sliver of the posters around here). I get the false bravado. It's not easy to adopt the point of view that the team's got some stink on it and that you'll be rooting for it anyway. For a lot of people, following baseball is more about falling in love with the possibility that something groovy might happen in warmer months than of it actually happening.

    Yet it really doesn't leave you much to talk about.

    Poster A: I think the Reds could win 90 games next year! I don't know why exactly, it's just a feeling I get.

    Poster B: I've done some analysis where everyone has a career year and all the starting pitchers win at least a dozen games and I project them to win 95 games.

    Poster A: They definitely ought to be win the division.

    That's, at best, a short conversation. Also, when you're in a massive online community you have to expect that a healthy number of folks are going to be more interested in figuring how good the Reds actually are rather than acting like there's smooth sailing ahead.

    Anyway, if the front office makes a few key improvements to the current mix, I think you'd see most people around here posting that the 2007 model looks to be the best Reds team of the 21st century. A #8 hitting defensive specialist, an old reliever and a Rule 5 pick fall well short of the sort of progress the team needs to make in order to get over the hump and claim "good team" status.
    Last edited by M2; 12-09-2006 at 10:32 AM.
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Obviously, I'm no fan of Wayne Krivsky. That's been made abundantly clear. But even I don't think that Wayne is particularly happy with the moves he's made thus far; I think he recognizes that more needs to be done. I truly think the guy has been reined in by Castellini. So adding the two components together--a currently penurious owner and a GM whose predilections are toward defense, weak sticks, and veteran presence--and you're looking at a lethal cocktail. So even if Wayne somehow struck on the right combo of vets to contend in the division, I believe he'd be undercut by payroll restrictions. I think that working under severe payroll constraints is going to require a GM with less of a sweet-tooth for the oldsters. Just a bad match between GM and owner, it seems, right now, unless Bob decides to open up the wallet. Wayne and some money could maybe get some interesting things done; Wayne on a budget has been, and likely will be, a disaster.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 12-09-2006 at 10:27 AM.

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    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Optimism typically isn't about a situation, it's usually about the person optimizing. The danger is saying all optimists or pessimists' take on a situation is wrong to start with just because of who they are.

    I'm somewhat optimistic about the team's chances next year, but still glad to have a team to talk about the process of getting better, bit by bit.

    The fact that we go into this season with an established top of the rotation, defined starters at all but one position, greatly improved defense and an owner that is wanting to win, and spend more liberally to get there has me more optimistic about the team than any year since 2000.

    That said, there's still work to do. But we've been trying to turn #4 starters into our #1 guy for an eternity, now our top two are solid and established. I like that.
    Last edited by VR; 12-09-2006 at 03:30 PM.
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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    I'm currious. Many folks seem to have come to the belife that BCast has limited the payroll to some "low ball" figure. Is there some factual basis for these claims or is it mearly conjecture based on what info we get from the news papers, dealings, BCast comments, etc?

    I'm not busting anyones chops. Just currious if it's been established what the payroll amount is, might be or if it's still a source of wild conjecture.

    If it hasn't been established, does it follow that because they didn't hand out a stupid contract to a FA that the overall payroll will be low/constrained? I'm not sure one is proof of the other.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Optimism typically isn't about a situation, it's usually about the Reds. The danger is saying all optimists or pessimists' take on a situation is wrong to start with just because of who they are.

    I'm somewhat optimistic about the team's chances next year, but still glad to have a team to talk about the process of getting better, bit by bit.

    The fact that we go into this season with an established top of the rotation, defined starters at all but one position, greatly improved defense and an owner that is wanting to win, and spend more liberally to get there has me more optimistic about the team than any year since 2000.

    That said, there's still work to do. But we've been trying to turn #4 starters into our #1 guy for an eternity, now our top two are solid and established. I like that.

    Besides "cost-of-operating" boosts in the payroll, where do you see Castellini having spent more liberally so far on this team? Where do you see this?

    It's an honest question.

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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    I'm currious. Many folks seem to have come to the belife that BCast has limited the payroll to some "low ball" figure. Is there some factual basis for these claims or is it mearly conjecture based on what info we get from the news papers, dealings, BCast comments, etc?

    I'm not busting anyones chops. Just currious if it's been established what the payroll amount is, might be or if it's still a source of wild conjecture.

    If it hasn't been established, does it follow that because they didn't hand out a stupid contract to a FA that the overall payroll will be low/constrained? I'm not sure one is proof of the other.
    The fact that the payroll has not gone up a bit since Castellini took over tells me a bunch.

    The only thing promising a payroll boost has been the language of "win now," but that's just not happened yet. That's a fact. So between siding with "fact" and "faith," I'm going with "fact" every time, till proven otherwise. It's just my method. I don't believe in promises; I believe in actions.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Roush's Change in Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The fact that the payroll has not gone up a bit since Castellini took over tells me a bunch.

    The only thing promising a payroll boost has been the language of "win now," but that's just not happened yet. That's a fact. So between siding with "fact" and "faith," I'm going with "fact" every time, till proven otherwise. It's just my method. I don't believe in promises; I believe in actions.
    One area that would be interesting to see payroll increases is in the scouting and player development departments. Those don't get the press of a +$10mil boost to player payroll but over time can have much longer lasting and dramatic results. Has there been any reports of spending increases in the "hidden" departments.

    None of that changes the player payroll issue, however.

    I can understand holding pat on payroll in the first year or so as they figure out what they have, what is possible and what makes sense for the business. But I agree, the further they get away from that 1st year "learning curve" period, while not changing payroll does cast doubt.

    Of course, the other issue may be they might be looking at areas to more smartly spend their money, instead of just jacking payroll right out of the gate. Why not streach the current dollars as far as they will go, spend them more effeciently inside the originization and then look at an overall boost. Not saying that is what they are doing, or should do, just something to consider.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 12-09-2006 at 10:43 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate


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