Roush's Change in Philosophy

[westofyou]

The fact that the payroll has not gone up a bit since Castellini took over tells me a bunch.

Payroll is a figure that is derived from yearly operating costs, the man hasn't even been operating the team for a year, he doesn't even have 12 months on the books yet.

I think your expectations are wrapped up in a wet blanket that doesn't exist in a real world business scenario, you want improvement without marketing, you want improvement without considering the reality of time, and you want improvement right away in the less then stable world of the baseball business.

You want it yesterday and well, it just ain't that frigging easy.

[Falls City Beer]

Payroll is a figure that is derived from yearly operating costs, the man hasn't even been operating the team for a year, he doesn't even have 12 months on the books yet.

I think your expectations are wrapped up in a wet blanket that doesn't exist in a real world business scenario, you want improvement without marketing, you want improvement without considering the reality of time, and you want improvement right away in the less then stable world of the baseball business.

You want it yesterday and well, it just ain't that frigging easy.

I want improvement. You're right. And it's not happened. That's where we differ--you see improvement and I don't.

And keep your little snipey "you don't get business" comments to yourself--my father ran his own business for nearly 50 years. I do understand the components of time and marketing, but I also know what improving the model looks like, and what indicators tell you is moving in the right direction. It doesn't all have to be sexy, true, but you know what improvement is, and go from there. There should already be signs of not just "change," (which we've clearly seen), but "improvement."

[M2]

Given the amount of league money swimming around in recent years, money the Reds haven't yet spent, I think it's fair to say the team could give the payroll a significant boost. I care more about the specific areas the team addresses and the players it brings in than the dollar figures, so the payroll isn't an issue for me. Though if Castellini, like Lindner, refuses to invest in talent as part of his greater business plan then I'm not going to have nice things to say about it.

Anyway, I think there's a lot shoes that will dropping before the season starts throughout baseball. For instance, the Cardinals will be making an impact move or two, count on it.

As such, I'm not taking the current mix to represent any sort of final state. If the Reds head into spring training without having made any other significant changes, then I'll consider it to be a fit in with the detestable stasis that's plagued the club in other recent offseasons.

[westofyou]

I want improvement. You're right. And it's not happened. That's where we differ--you see improvement and I don't.

And keep your little snipey "you don't get business" comments to yourself--my father ran his own business for nearly 50 years. I do understand the components of time and marketing, but I also know what improving the model looks like, and what indicators tell you is moving in the right direction. It doesn't all have to be sexy, true, but you know what improvement is, and go from there. There should already be signs of not just "change," (which we've clearly seen), but "improvement."

Yeah I'm "snipey"

Read what you want in between the lines, that's obviously going to happen anyway.

[Edd Roush]

Another thing I left out of my original post, that I think is still prevalent, is that as much as I want the Reds to go out and sign the first baseman plattoon that we have all been clamoring for due to Hatte's weak OPS against lefties and also that third starter who will push Milton/Lohse down in the rotation, I'm not going to allow a week without any moves by Krivsky to give me an ulcer. Who knows, Krivsky could already have deals with Craig Wilson or Eduardo Perez and he's just going to wait to announce it.

I think I have personally taken this off-season too seriously, getting mad any time Krivsky does anything against what I or Redszone in general thinks is best for the Reds. I'm sure Krivsky has a better reality of the Reds and he has an agenda that we won't see take shape until March or maybe even later. Maybe with all of his talk at the winter meetings, Krivsky found a match in another organization for a third starter, rather than having to dole out 10 million dollars a year for a minor upgrade.

All I'm saying is, I'm not going to get mad from here on out, whether the Reds get Player X or not, it really isn't going to effect my passion for the Reds. I guess that shows my youth and the fact that I wasn't able to enjoy the Big Red Machine or really even the 1990 team. Whatever happens, I figure it's better to be an informed optimist rather than a disgusted pessimist. Seems more fun to me.

[Falls City Beer]

Yeah I'm "snipey"

Read what you want in between the lines, that's obviously going to happen anyway.

Then what was up with that "academia" quip yesterday?

Like I'm some cloistered rube who's never seen a double-entry book before.

[Falls City Beer]

All I'm saying is, I'm not going to get mad from here on out, whether the Reds get Player X or not, it really isn't going to effect my passion for the Reds. I guess that shows my youth and the fact that I wasn't able to enjoy the Big Red Machine or really even the 1990 team. Whatever happens, I figure it's better to be an informed optimist rather than a disgusted pessimist. Seems more fun to me.

That seems like a really good idea. And healthy.

But let me wring my hands, if you don't mind?

[M2]

Whatever happens, I figure it's better to be an informed optimist rather than a disgusted pessimist. Seems more fun to me.

Easily the most pointless discussions on this board have revolved around optimism/pessimism. Most of the time neither have anything to do with what's going on.

[westofyou]

Then what was up with that "academia" quip yesterday?

Like I'm some cloistered rube who's never seen a double-entry book before.

Probably emulated from the same place that created this statement

All that marketing for an empty cause.

[Falls City Beer]

Probably emulated from the same place that created this statement

As I said, the marketing itself is fine (and necessary). But if your product sucks, who cares?

[westofyou]

But if your product sucks, who cares?

Me... 2,377 miles away, and you evidently, and you're probably 700 miles from the GAB

Shut off the tap and likely when you are gone no one will, Marge already killed the satellite areas draw, Carl didn't do a thing to improve it.

Marketing is should be the skin to this franchise, it should be all encompassing, not thought of as an afterthought.

[kaldaniels]

everyone has the right to give their own opinion. you have a right to your's and the negative posters have that right as well. I am a little of both sometimes. We all get different things out of the game, so it's not just to say how someone should enjoy or discuss it. Those posts that agree with everything the FO does are just as annoying as those that disagree with everything.

One one hand, I agree with where you are coming from, but on the other, I am not and will never be satisfied with a .500 ball club. Some are, that's just not me.

Sorry about the Titans then.

[Ltlabner]

As I said, the marketing itself is fine (and necessary). But if your product sucks, who cares?

How bout because if you wait around for the product to be great to build a solid marketing orginization it will be too late to capatalize on the the good product?

There is more to building an orginization than the players on the field. While that is certinally the main thrust and use of resources in a baseball orginization you need all of the various departments working well to build a great business. Putting time and the miniscule (compared to payroll) amount of money into resurecting Redsfest is a wise and good first step towards rebuilding this important Reds supporting function. Next up should be rebuilding the fringe markets long sense abandoned.

[Falls City Beer]

How bout because if you wait around for the product to be great to build a solid marketing orginization it will be too late to capatalize on the the good product?

There is more to building an orginization than the players on the field. While that is certinally the main thrust and use of resources in a baseball orginization you need all of the various departments working well to build a great business. Putting time and the miniscule (compared to payroll) amount of money into resurecting Redsfest is a wise and good first step towards rebuilding this important Reds supporting function. Next up should be rebuilding the fringe markets long sense abandoned.

As I said--I'll say it again--why do the marketing and not build the product at the same time? Why do one and not the other?

[Ltlabner]

As I said--I'll say it again--why do the marketing and not build the product at the same time? Why do one and not the other?

That is where we dissagree. You belive they have done nothing at all to improve the product. I believe they have made some progress (certinally not nearly enough, but definatley not "none").