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Thread: Leiber on the block

  1. #1
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Leiber on the block

    This could make great sense for us. I would certainly deal Cormier + back to Philly for Jon Leiber. I think he could be a solid #3 for us this season and then we may be able to get a sandwich pick out of him next off-season. I think it's a very sensible option, plus we can keep him away from other NL central pitching hungry teams. Then if we feel we still need another LHP we could conceivably re-sign Schoeneweis. Although I would feel fine with Stanton, Bray and Shackelford from the Left side.


    Hello, Steel City?
    Dec 8 - The Phillies want to move Jon Lieber for bullpen help, and the Pirates are considering a deal for the veteran pitcher, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports.
    The Brewers and Rangers also are interested in the 36-year-old righty, who is due $7.5 million in 2007 and can become a free agent after next season.

    Lieber is coming off a rare down season in Philadelphia (9-11, 4.93 ERA) after winning 17 games in 2005.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 12-10-2006 at 01:36 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  3. #2
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Since we're stuck with Weathers for 2 years, I'd offer Majewski and/or Cormier.

  4. #3
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    I just cant see them letting go of a starter for an old reliever.

  5. #4
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    I don't know why the Phils would trade Lieber.

    Off the top of my head, he has to be their #3 guy coming into 2007 behind Myers and Garcia.

  6. #5
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    I just cant see them letting go of a starter for an old reliever.
    Salary dump.

  7. #6
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    I wanted the Reds to go for Lieber at the trade deadline, but if the Phillies are looking for bullpen help, I'm not sure what the Reds can offer. I don't want to let go of Coffey or even Bray, and everyone else is too old.

    Did the Phil's ever pick up a catcher? If not, maybe they could be persuaded with a package including Valentin and mabye Belisle . (Okay, I know that's not likely, but earlier I was thinking of offering Ross for Lieber, but now LaRue's in KC....)

    Sorry. I think he'd be a good pickup, but I can't come up with a likely offer (unless it is a true salary dump situation).

  8. #7
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    I don't know why the Phils would trade Lieber.

    Off the top of my head, he has to be their #3 guy coming into 2007 behind Myers and Garcia.
    Just signed Eaton and Moyer and Hamels is the top prospect. They want to dump the $.

  9. #8
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    What about sending them Coffey? Would that make sense?
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  10. #9
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Why in the world would we give up talent for a back of the rotation starter who's older and more expensive, but not really any better, than our in house options? Unless you're making a playoff push, paying somebody 7-8MM to hold down the back of your rotatation is pretty big waste of money. The only thing you get with Lieber over say, Belisle or EZ is a bit more certainty -- not really any better performance. 35 starts of 5.00 ERA pitching isn't going to improve this team in the short or long term.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-10-2006 at 02:26 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #10
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    I wouldn't send young talent with long-term potential (such as Coffey), but I would send a servicable part the Phils could plug in and use. Lieber would be the number three starter on the Reds, I believe. Other than last year, his ERA's been in the high 3's or low 4's. He's a ground ball pitcher who should fare well with the new infield defense. And knowing what you were getting would be a big plus for this rotation.

    He's not an ace, but he could fill a major hole on this team.

  12. #11
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Why in the world would we give up talent for a back of the rotation starter who's older and more expensive, but not really any better, than our in house options? Unless you're making a playoff push, paying somebody 7-8MM to hold down the back of your rotatation is pretty big waste of money. The only thing you get with Lieber over say, Belisle or EZ is a bit more certainty -- not really any better performance. 35 starts of 5.00 ERA pitching isn't going to improve this team in the short or long term.
    2006 was his worst year. Prior to that he's number 3 quality. I'd say he's a better bet than Lohse for 2007 and the $ are about the same. But your right about his age and the giving up talent part. That's why I suggested Cormier and Majewski.

    In 2006 he had a severe groin injury which interupted his season in May when he was just starting to get it together (he'd had 3 really good starts prior to that). He was out until July and got rocked a couple times before finding his groove. He was good in August and September. I think his 2006 stats are deceiving due to the injury and would expect better in 2007.

  13. #12
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    2006 was his worst year. Prior to that he's number 3 quality. I'd say he's a better bet than Lohse for 2007 and the $ are about the same..
    Without a doubt. On both points.

    Plus it would mean the Reds wouldn't have to face him anymore. Which would be a blessing.

    Oh, and another thing: hearing Lieber speak on Philly radio and TV quite a bit, I get the sense that he's a very bright guy; he certainly pitches intelligently. Compare that to Lohse's very low baseball IQ.

    I'd give them Bray and Cueto in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 12-10-2006 at 02:59 PM.

  14. #13
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Without a doubt. On both points.

    Plus it would mean the Reds wouldn't have to face him anymore. Which would be a blessing.

    Oh, and another thing: hearing Lieber speak on Philly radio and TV quite a bit, I get the sense that he's a very bright guy; he certainly pitches intelligently. Compare that to Lohse's very low baseball IQ.

    I'd give them Bray and Cueto in a heartbeat.
    Good Lord, Bray and Cueto for a pitcher who hasn't posted an ERA below 4.30 since 2002? That would be an awful deal. Listen, I like Jon Lieber and would like to see the Reds acquire him, but not for a stud like Johnny Cueto.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  15. #14
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Leiber on the block

    But the question isn't Lieber vs. Lohse. It's trading away talent for Lieber vs. Lohse. I too would rather have Lieber. But depending on who we'd have to give up, I'd rather have Lohse and those guys.

    If could've done a LaRue/Lieber swap, sure. If we can trade Cormier and Harris, sure. But giving away any youth of value for a guy who's more expensive, older, and not significantly better than what we've got, then what's the point?

    BTW, shouldn't we be wary of a 37 year old pitcher who suffered a sever groin injury the previous year?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Leiber on the block

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Good Lord, Bray and Cueto for a pitcher who hasn't posted an ERA below 4.30 since 2002? That would be an awful deal. Listen, I like Jon Lieber and would like to see the Reds acquire him, but not for a stud like Johnny Cueto.
    It's going to take at least two arms to get Lieber. If we can get him for less, great. But Gillick's not the same idiot as Wade.

    I don't think for a second that the Phils want anything to do with the Reds' geriatric bullpenners. I think they might be interested in a youngun like Bray however.

    I'd start with Bray and Shearn, but I'd move up to Cueto if need be. I'm not married to A ballers.


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