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Thread: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

  1. #31
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Most states have laws that require seatbelts.
    Some states have laws that require motorcycle helmets.
    All states have laws that require proper seats for infants and toddlers.
    All states have laws that have maximum speed limits on their roads.

    It seems that these laws are there to save lives. Seems logical to most.

    When are states with mountains going to have laws about climbing mountains during certain times of the year?
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  3. #32
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Oregon bill would require climbers to carry beacons

    SALEM, Oregon (AP) -- There's danger aplenty on Oregon's tallest peak -- including avalanches and crevasses. Some say a small electronic device can improve the odds of survival.

    Several Oregon lawmakers want to require climbers to wear electronic locators above 10,000 feet on Mount Hood -- an idea mountaineers resist.

    Rep. John Lim, chief sponsor, contends that three climbers who died in December might be alive had they carried the devices, which send electronic signals that can give search and rescue teams the precise location of stranded climbers.

    But many climbers say that while carrying beacons is a good idea, it should be their choice -- not required.

    "It's a very dangerous undertaking, but that's part of the beauty of it," Dave Sauerbrey, a leader of a climbing group, said of mountaineering.

    On Sunday, three climbers who fell from a ledge at the 8,300-foot level of Mount Hood activated such a beacon, helping rescuers pinpoint their location and mount a rescue operation.

    No state requires climbers to carry the devices. Lim says Oregon should be the first, especially in view of the deaths of three out-of-state climbers in December. The trio did not carry beacons, though one was able to make a distress call to his family using a cell phone.

    Lim said having to carry a beacon shouldn't be that big a deal to climbers and the requirement would cut the cost of search-and-rescue operations.

    "It will send a strong message to climbers -- this may save your life and spare your loved ones misery," he said.

    But Rep. Scott Bruun, a climber who's been to the summit of Mount Hood a dozen times, disagrees: "This was a tragic accident that happened in an extreme sport. This is a situation the Legislature can't fix."

    In the past 25 years, more than 35 climbers have died on the 11,239-foot mountain, one of the most frequently climbed mountains in the world.

    Rocky Henderson of Portland Mountain Rescue said his group has taken no stand on Lim's bill, but he believes that "if you try to legislate so much safety, you lose the adventure."

    Missing mountain climbers accounted for only 3.4 percent of the total number of search-and-rescue missions mounted in Oregon in 2005 -- not a disproportionate share compared with hunters, mushroom pickers or others who get lost in the wilds, Henderson said.

    "The Oregon Legislature shouldn't waste time on something that's such a small problem in the overall scheme of things," he said.

    But another lawmaker who's co-sponsoring the bill said the climbers "are being a little bit selfish" and the legislation would reduce the risks faced by rescuers at high altitudes.

    "Those rescuers are putting their lives on the line," says Rep. Jerry Krummel. "I want to give them all the tools they need to help them save lives. This bill does that."

    Charley Shimanski of the Mountain Rescue Association, which represents 100 search-and-rescue groups in the U.S. and Canada, said he worries that relying on electronic beacons could give climbers a false sense of security.

    "They might think, `I've got this gizmo that tells everybody where I am, so I can take greater risks,'" Shimanski said in a phone interview from Evergreen, Colorado.

    He called Lim's bill an "overreaction" to the December deaths. Even if they had locators, the climbers would have likely died because conditions were so perilous, he argued.
    Since the taxpayers here have to pay for these moronic excursions, I'll just throw back my head and laugh at this guys worries.

  4. #33
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Wouldn't it make common sense for climbers to carry some sort of GPS or monitoring device with a traceable signal?
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  5. #34
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    At least there is a happy ending this time.


    GOVERNMENT CAMP, Ore. Three climbers who tumbled off a ledge on Mount Hood were taken away in an ambulance after they hiked down much of the state's highest peak with their rescuers and a dog who may have saved their lives.

    "We're soaking wet and freezing," said one of two rescued women as she walked from a tracked snow vehicle to an ambulance.

    One of the women, whose name was not released, was taken to a Portland hospital and being treated for a head injury, said Jim Strovink, spokesman for the Clackamas County Sheriff's Department.

    "She's going to be fine," he said, noting that she had walked most of the way down the mountain.

    Two others, Matty Bryant, 34, a teacher in the Portland suburb of Milwaukie, Oregon, and Kate Hanlon, 34, a teacher in the suburb of Wilsonville, Oregon, were taken to Timberline Lodge on the mountain to rejoin five other members of the climbing party, he said.

    Rescuers using an electronic locating device found the three climbers and their black Labrador, Velvet, on Monday morning in the White River Canyon, where they had holed up overnight at about 7,400 feet (2,250 meters), officials said. The crew hiked with them down the east flank of the 11,239-foot (3,425-meter) mountain; on the way down, the climbers got into a tracked snow vehicle that took them to the ambulance.


    "The dog probably saved their lives" by lying across them during the cold night, said Erik Brom, a member of the Portland Mountain Rescue team. He described the wind in the canyon as "hellacious."

    The two women left the snow vehicle first, followed by Bryant and the dog. The three climbers boarded the ambulance, and Velvet leapt in after them.

    In addition to the dog, who provided warmth and comfort, rescuers attributed the happy outcome to the climbers' use of an electronic mountain locator unit that guided searchers to their exact position.

    "That's why it is a rescue, not a recovery," Lt. Nick Watt of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office told a news conference at Timberline Lodge, a ski resort at 6,000 feet (1,830 meters). "They did everything right."

    The three were in a party of eight that set out Saturday for the summit, camped on the mountain that night and began to come back down on Sunday when they ran into bad weather, officials said.

    As they were descending at about 8,300 feet (2,530 meters), the three slipped off a ledge. They slid about 500 feet (150 meters) down an incline and later moved from the site of the fall, rescuers said.

    In December, three climbers who did not have mountain locator units went missing on the mountain. Authorities searched for days, but were able to recover the body of only one climber, Kelly James of Dallas, who died of hypothermia. The bodies of Brian Hall of Dallas and Jerry "Nikko" Cooke of New York have not been found.

    In the past 25 years, more than 35 climbers have died on Mount Hood, one of the most frequently climbed mountains in the world.
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  6. #35
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Man do I get sick of the coverage of this stuff on the local news though.
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  7. #36
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Personally, I hope that these people are billed for the cost of the rescue and, if they don't pay it, are sued for the money the state spent to rescue them. I would even go so far as to charge them with cruelty to animals for putting the dog in that kind of dangerous situation.

    If people want to climb a mountain as an 'extream sport' let them accept the consequences of their actions. You screw up, you die. Simple as that. No one comes to your rescue, no one puts their life on the line to save you from your own stupidity, no one spends hundreds of thousands of dollars that are badly needed by people that suffer misfortune through no fault of their own. Bye-bye, end of story.

    The smartest lifeform in that whole group, including the other five in the climbing party, was the dog. I wish that weren't so predictable.

    Rem

  8. #37
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    I have a friend who says if you are where you should be, doing what you should be doing, chances are you'll be safe.

    Seems climbing a mountian in winter is neither.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  9. #38
    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Wouldn't it make common sense for climbers to carry some sort of GPS or monitoring device with a traceable signal?
    Charles Darwin says "hello".

    The herd will thin itself. I'm totally fine with that.

    And I'm with rem. Send 'em the bill. For everything.

  10. #39
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    I'm just glad the dog is ok. The climbers chose to go, he didn't have a choice.

  11. #40
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    Personally, I hope that these people are billed for the cost of the rescue and, if they don't pay it, are sued for the money the state spent to rescue them. I would even go so far as to charge them with cruelty to animals for putting the dog in that kind of dangerous situation.

    They are actually thinking about doing this now.
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  12. #41
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    They are actually thinking about doing this now.
    BTW they're all locals, who picked a weekend that was packed in with rain, plus the average snowfall for the month of February on Hood is 41.53 inches.

    Mount Hood, Oregon's tallest peak, is the second most climbed mountain in the world, next to Japan's Mount Fuji. An estimated 10,000 people per year register to scale the peak (though some do climb without registering). Unfortunately, Mount Hood does have a history of deaths and injuries, with over 100 killed on its slopes in the past 100 years. The peak is accessible from a short 90 minute drive from Portland and many novice climbers attempt climbs during the May and June "busy season". Though most of the climbers involved on May 30th were veteran climbers, lack of experience, along with other factors like improper training and poor equipment are common causes of mountaineering accidents.

    Mount Hood has many crevassed glaciers and can be quite hazardous, despite the high volume of successful climbs each year.

  13. #42
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/...rylist=orlocal

    Members of volunteer groups involved in the December 2006 search for three missing climbers on Mount Hood were called to a meeting in Hood River late last week.

    Rocky Henderson of Portland Mountain Rescue said about 30 representatives of the primary search groups attended, along with Sheriff Joe Wampler of Hood River and Sheriff Craig Roberts of Clackamas County.

    He said the meeting was pitched as a 'thank you' from a family and there was a hint that a donation might be involved.


    That donation turned out to be $90,000.

    "We were blown away," Henderson told The Oregonian newspaper Monday.

    The money came from a private foundation in Dallas, Texas, home of Kelly James and Brian Hall. James, 48, died of hypothermia in a snow cave on the north side of the mountain, and his body was eventually airlifted from just below the summit. The bodies of Hall, 37, Jerry "Nikko" Cooke, 36, of New York City, were never found.

    Wampler said most of the donated money was collected by Hall's friends during the first week of the search, ostensibly to pay for medical bills if the missing climbers were found alive.

    "I've seen donations before, but nothing like this in my lifetime," Wampler said. "I mean, wow."

    Dwight Hall, the father of Brian Hall, and Jerry Cooke's wife, Michaela Cooke, were at the meeting; Hall made the presentation.

    "I told him this was Oregon and he didn't have to do that," Wampler said. "But he said, 'that's not me.' He wanted to make sure there is money for the next search... he was insistent."

    The Hood River County Sheriff's Office received $50,000 and the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office got $23,000. Wampler said the money would be put back in the sheriff's search and rescue fund and be used to replace equipment lost or damaged during the search, and to train volunteers.

    The Crag Rats and Portland Mountain Rescue both got $11,000.

    "For us, it's huge," Henderson said. "It means we can hire and pay a professionally trained instructor. We've gotten money from families before, but this is very significant."

    The Oregon National Guard's 1042nd Air Ambulance Company, and the U.S. Air Force Reserve's 304th Rescue Squadron split $1,000, but because they are federal agencies, the money will be put in a general party fund.

  14. #43
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Note from Oregon to the Rest of the nation.

    I remember a comment I heard from Beck Weathers(who lost his hands and part of his face on Everest ... see the krakauer book) about how incredibly selfish his mountain climbing was and he didn't see it until the disaster happened on Everest.
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