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Thread: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

  1. #1
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    Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Don't get me wrong, I think WK has done a great job so far (besides signing Alex Gonzalez) but something tells me things are not ok. First Larry Barton (former special assistant, in charge of pro scouting) quits and absolutely bashes WK for not listening to him at all and now Johnny Almaraz quits because says WK doesn't listen. And I quote:

    "I'm not included in any of the discussions and, in fact, when I walked into the suite during the winter meetings Wayne and his people would lower their voices to a whisper or take their discussions into the bedroom," Almaraz said.

    And from Hal McCoy:

    When Wayne Krivsky became general manager of the Cincinnati Reds in February, one of the main reasons was the support he received from two members of owner Bob Castellini's screening committee special assistants Larry Barton Jr. and Gene Bennett.

    As was reported at the time by the Dayton Daily News, Castellini had decided on special adviser Jim Beattie to be the GM, but the next day Barton and Bennett made impassioned cases for Krivsky, and Castellini changed his mind.

    Now, 10 months later, Barton pulled a Johnny PayCheck and told Krivsky, "Take this job and shove it, I don't work here anymore."

    Barton, one of two senior special assistants in charge of pro scouting, was offered a contract when his old one expired Oct. 31. But he quit after working for the Reds for 38 years since Bob Howsam hired him in 1968.

    "Wayne has changed," said Barton, confirming the Beattie/Krivsky scenario. "After what went on this year, I just had enough. Wayne isn't the person I thought he was."

    Barton's main complaint is that Krivsky wasn't listening to his advice, especially the trade of Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez to the Washington Nationals for shortstop Royce Clayton and pitchers Gary Majewski and Bill Bray.

    "Wayne came to me in the spring and said he could get (pitcher) Bronson Arroyo for an outfielder Wily Mo Pena, Adam Dunn or Austin Kearns," said Barton. "Turns out Boston wanted Wily Mo, and that was fine because we had an extra outfielder."

    But when Krivsky said he was trading another outfielder, Kearns, and a 25-year-old All-Star shortstop (Lopez) for an old shortstop (Clayton) and a couple of pitchers, "I told him I didn't like the deal and asked who was going to play shortstop next year, and he told me, 'I'm not worried about next year.' "

    Barton said when the Reds were ready to acquire pitcher Eddie Guardado from Seattle, a scout told him Guardado had a bad arm that could blow any time, "But Wayne said he had talked to his agent and was told Guardado just had a bad back and his arm was OK."

    Krivsky made the deal, and Guardado underwent Tommy John ligament transplant surgery in his elbow Sept. 8 and isn't expected to be able to pitch until the middle of next season.

    Barton didn't agree with the Reds carrying three catchers all year in 2006, "Then (Krivsky) trades Jason LaRue, but signs Chad Moeller. So are they going to go with three catchers again? They need pitching, not three catchers."

    Reds officials were told Barton retired, but he said, "I didn't retire. I'm not finished. I'll resurface with a job somewhere in baseball. I just got tired of fighting with him on the deals he made late last season."

    Krivsky didn't want to get into a word battle and said, "I appreciate and respect everything Larry Barton has done for 38 years in the organization, and it was my understanding he was going into retirement, and I accepted that retirement message."

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/con...20506reds.html

    Do we have a major problem here? I'm a little worried.

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  3. #2
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Someone noted that it's interesting that Hal McCoy is breaking these stories. I'm guessing his old cronies are getting the heave-ho and he's carrying the ax for them. I've been wondering when an overall housecleaning of the scouting department was going to take place. Looks like it is.

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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    I don't care who gets fired. Just so long as who gets hired actually scouts better than before. That means pitchers, hitters, fielders, the whole nine yards. And not just one sided players as well. No defensive experts, no control artist/"specialist" pitchers, just good overall talent..oh..did I mention pouding it into Krivskys head they can be under the age of 38 as well?

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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I think WK has done a great job so far (besides signing Alex Gonzalez) but something tells me things are not ok.
    I'm not quite sure of all the Alex Gonzalez hate. Sure, it's not a flashy signing and sure he doesn't have a stick that I would quantify as being a team assett, but since when is signing a good glove to play a glove position a bad thing?

    After the horrendous play that has passed for defense at the position (Lopez, Aurillia, and Clayton) over the past couple years, it'll at least be refreshing to not wince as ground balls go unplayed through the holes on the left side of the infield.
    Championships Matter.
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Considering the lack of success in the organization for the last decade or so, Krivsky ought to clean house. I think the Reds had too many people who were too comfortable in their jobs. Special adviser jobs are given to people who have no skills elsewhere. They are ceremonial mostly. Krivsky and Cast ought to clean house from top to bottom.

  7. #6
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I think WK has done a great job so far (besides signing Alex Gonzalez) but something tells me things are not ok. First Larry Barton (former special assistant, in charge of pro scouting) quits and absolutely bashes WK for not listening to him at all and now Johnny Almaraz quits because says WK doesn't listen.
    Here's My take::: Somewhat tongue in cheek.

    "I'm not included in any of the discussions and, in fact, when I walked into the suite during the winter meetings Wayne and his people would lower their voices to a whisper or take their discussions into the bedroom," Almaraz said.
    Maybe they didn't recognize Almaraz?? They must have thought he was a reporter from PAGE 2 of ESPN!

    And from Hal McCoy:

    When Wayne Krivsky became general manager of the Cincinnati Reds in February, one of the main reasons was the support he received from two members of owner Bob Castellini's screening committee — special assistants Larry Barton Jr. and Gene Bennett.

    As was reported at the time by the Dayton Daily News, Castellini had decided on special adviser Jim Beattie to be the GM, but the next day Barton and Bennett made impassioned cases for Krivsky, and Castellini changed his mind.
    Larry to Gene: "Hey brother, we better recommend this Krusty guy. Beattie's been here 3 weeks and he's already got us countin' paper clips. What do you think he'll do to us next?

    Now, 10 months later, Barton pulled a Johnny PayCheck and told Krivsky, "Take this job and shove it, I don't work here anymore."

    Barton, one of two senior special assistants in charge of pro scouting, was offered a contract when his old one expired Oct. 31. But he quit after working for the Reds for 38 years — since Bob Howsam hired him in 1968.

    "Wayne has changed," said Barton, confirming the Beattie/Krivsky scenario. "After what went on this year, I just had enough. Wayne isn't the person I thought he was."
    After several months of dating the inevitable "You've changed" conversation took place. Feeling abused and taken advantage of Larry crawls back to his man love partner Hal.

    Barton's main complaint is that Krivsky wasn't listening to his advice, especially the trade of Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez to the Washington Nationals for shortstop Royce Clayton and pitchers Gary Majewski and Bill Bray.

    "Wayne came to me in the spring and said he could get (pitcher) Bronson Arroyo for an outfielder — Wily Mo Pena, Adam Dunn or Austin Kearns," said Barton. "Turns out Boston wanted Wily Mo, and that was fine because we had an extra outfielder."
    Barton to Krivsky: You just never listen to me anymore. (His best sniffling impersontation) All I do is Scout, Scout Scout and it's like I am talking to a wall. You want to get rid of guys and I'm trying to hold this thing together with two hands... Ohhhh Wayne.

    But when Krivsky said he was trading another outfielder, Kearns, and a 25-year-old All-Star shortstop (Lopez) for an old shortstop (Clayton) and a couple of pitchers, "I told him I didn't like the deal and asked who was going to play shortstop next year, and he told me, 'I'm not worried about next year.' "
    Barton to Hal: I told him not to make that trade. Told Him straight. Hal you knew didn't you? You knew it the whole time!

    Barton said when the Reds were ready to acquire pitcher Eddie Guardado from Seattle, a scout told him Guardado had a bad arm that could blow any time, "But Wayne said he had talked to his agent and was told Guardado just had a bad back and his arm was OK."

    Krivsky made the deal, and Guardado underwent Tommy John ligament transplant surgery in his elbow Sept. 8 and isn't expected to be able to pitch until the middle of next season.
    There is no man love like Twins Love!

    Barton didn't agree with the Reds carrying three catchers all year in 2006, "Then (Krivsky) trades Jason LaRue, but signs Chad Moeller. So are they going to go with three catchers again? They need pitching, not three catchers."
    No comment. Nothing funny here!


    Reds officials were told Barton retired, but he said, "I didn't retire. I'm not finished. I'll resurface with a job somewhere in baseball. I just got tired of fighting with him on the deals he made late last season."

    Krivsky didn't want to get into a word battle and said, "I appreciate and respect everything Larry Barton has done for 38 years in the organization, and it was my understanding he was going into retirement, and I accepted that retirement message."
    Facing a potentially lengthy divorce both parties have agreed to call one another Pissy Pants until Feb 16th.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Put me down in the "It sure as hell wasn't working before so they could fire everybody for all I care" category.

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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    The way Almaraz said they would whisper and take conversations to other rooms sounds an awful lot like they didn't trust him to keep it from the media...

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Tell me what you've done right, not that you couldn't stop somebody else from doing wrong.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Tell me what you've done right, not that you couldn't stop somebody else from doing wrong.

    Sell yourself to the media "I was responcible for the signing of Yadda Yadda", don't save face over Waynes foleys.

    Excellent point RMR.

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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I'm not quite sure of all the Alex Gonzalez hate. Sure, it's not a flashy signing and sure he doesn't have a stick that I would quantify as being a team assett, but since when is signing a good glove to play a glove position a bad thing?

    After the horrendous play that has passed for defense at the position (Lopez, Aurillia, and Clayton) over the past couple years, it'll at least be refreshing to not wince as ground balls go unplayed through the holes on the left side of the infield.
    It's just that we already had a defensive glove at short stop with Juan Castro who has just as bad of a bat at less cost. So I'm not quite sure why we signed Alex... in my opinion, he's just a more expensive version of Juan Castro.

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    It's just that we already had a defensive glove at short stop with Juan Castro who has just as bad of a bat at less cost. So I'm not quite sure why we signed Alex... in my opinion, he's just a more expensive version of Juan Castro.

    The extra expense accounts for Alex actually having wheels.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    The extra expense accounts for Alex actually having wheels.
    And, by extension, range.
    Championships Matter.
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    The extra expense accounts for Alex actually having wheels.
    He's not an especially good baserunner. And a terrible basestealer. He's a one-tool infielder. Let's leave it at that.

    He'll help the infield and probably not hurt as much as some think on offense, but I think it's probably smart not to get too excited by how much the guy's overall game will actually help the team.

    You don't get a hell of lot more vanilla than Alex for overall contribution.

  16. #15
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Is Wayne not listening to scouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    He's not an especially good baserunner. And a terrible basestealer. He's a one-tool infielder. Let's leave it at that.

    He'll help the infield and probably not hurt as much as some think on offense, but I think it's probably smart not to get too excited by how much the guy's overall game will actually help the team.

    You don't get a hell of lot more vanilla than Alex for overall contribution.

    Yeah, I know. My "wheels" comment was to contrast what everyone seems to think about Castro being a statue in the field.

    But I'm a big believer in defense up the middle. I think it's really hurt us and put a lot of extra strain on the pitchers.

    So, I'm just fine with acquiring Alex.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain


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