Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

  1. #1
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,626

    How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    Everyone is venting. There is no use crying over water under the fridge, the Schmidts, Wolfes, Meches, Lillys, Marquis, and Jennings are gone from the market or trading block at remarkably, if not foolishly, high prices. So, were do you suggest the Reds go from here? How does a team reasonably approach the prospect of acquiring a number three starter to fit in behind Harang and Arroyo with the crazy demand for 3-4 starters out there?

    And, one more thing, let's try not to turn this into a Adam Dunn for Jeremy Bonderman thread. That would be nice, but it has been driven into the ground. How else are the Reds to acquire a number three starter?
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    25,047

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    Everyone is venting. There is no use crying over water under the fridge, the Schmidts, Wolfes, Meches, Lillys, Marquis, and Jennings are gone from the market or trading block at remarkably, if not foolishly, high prices. So, were do you suggest the Reds go from here? How does a team reasonably approach the prospect of acquiring a number three starter to fit in behind Harang and Arroyo with the crazy demand for 3-4 starters out there?

    And, one more thing, let's try not to turn this into a Adam Dunn for Jeremy Bonderman thread. that would be nice, but it has been driven into the ground. How else are the Reds to acquire a number three starter?
    At the risk of sounding reductive, I seriously doubt they're going after one; and I would be stunned if, were they to go after one, that they would acquire one in the process.

    My guess is that they are very hard at work hammering out more salary dumps--looking into paying parts of salaries to get them off the books. That isn't the worst thing that could happen, but it likely means that talent won't be coming in return.

  4. #3
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    This is probably a dumb question.

    But if the Reds don't have enough cash to buy a FA. And they don't have enough trade tallent to induce a trade, could the package together some tallent with some cash to make a deal come together with another team?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  5. #4
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,868

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    I think they have to package Freel with any of the prospects not named Bailey, Votto or Bruce. Maybe throw in a vet bullpen arm also.

    Freel has the best combination of talent, salary, position scarcity and ready replacement available to get something back that could actually help. The fact that he is over 30 and due for a big raise in the near future probably factors in.

    As far as prospects go, the top three appear to be major pieces of the future core so they shouldn't be traded unless some one knocks the teams socks off. The others are all pretty far away and not projected as impact players. Some could be decent, but decent can be replaced.

    The Reds could target a low dollar up and comer. Since they wouldn't be trading much salary it wouldn't require a big contract coming back to keep from blowing the trading partner out of the water. Alternatively, they could take on a contract and trade off Lohse to make room on the payroll.

    I have serious doubts that anything will happen though.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    We have pitchers now?!
    Posts
    1,017

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    We shouldnt be trying for a number three starter. We techinically should already have one. Why we don't already is the big question. Are we out of money? Are we having trouble trading? Is Krivsky just talking out his ass? These are all questions that we need answered.


    Along with...after the number three starter, how do we get a righty bat for right field? Too many questions..no answers.

  7. #6
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Dayton Area
    Posts
    8,471

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    We could always do it the Jim Bowden way.

    Sign 10-15 "name" pitchers at Minor League Contracts with ST invites and let'em duke it out.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    511

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    About the only way I see the Reds adding to there rotation is through a trade of Dunn.I just think a trade with LA makes alot of sense,probably to much sense to actually happen.I think a sending Dunn to LA for Billingsley or Penny and Ethier or Kemp.It would help both clubs in a big way.It gives Cincy the SP for the rotation and a OF to replace Dunn.It also gives LA the big lefty bat to play LF or 1st. could also see the Reds sending Bray or Cormier to Detroit fro Monroe or Thames.These 2 deals could work well for all clubs involved.

  9. #8
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,078

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    Depends on what you would classify a #3 starter. A number 3 guy for the Reds could be someones #4 or #5.. ie Bronson Arroyo.

  10. #9
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    2,257

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    About the only way I see the Reds adding to there rotation is through a trade of Dunn.I just think a trade with LA makes alot of sense,probably to much sense to actually happen.I think a sending Dunn to LA for Billingsley or Penny and Ethier or Kemp.It would help both clubs in a big way.It gives Cincy the SP for the rotation and a OF to replace Dunn.It also gives LA the big lefty bat to play LF or 1st. could also see the Reds sending Bray or Cormier to Detroit fro Monroe or Thames.These 2 deals could work well for all clubs involved.
    If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  11. #10
    Member penantboundreds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    861

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    the same bronson arroyo from 2006 or when we got him?
    For Love of the Game

    "If you aren't first; you're last"

  12. #11
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,271

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    It's going to require a trade and the Reds probably need to identify a guy who's struggled a bit, but could bust out in 2007. A whole lot of names got brought up in this thread:

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51917

    The other option is to find a veteran who you think can rebound with some ferocity. Got no idea what Atlanta wants for Tim Hudson, but I'd sure be asking.

    Supposedly the Angels are willing to discuss Ervin Santana. What for? I've got no idea. They could use some DH and catching help, maybe a lefty setup man too.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  13. #12
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,091

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    Develop a #1 and call Arroyo your #3. Seriously. I would argue that there is no such thing as a #3 starter. There are aces, mid rotation-guys, and back of the rotation guys. That's it. The rest of the distinctions are a function of context. Matzusaka is going to open as the Red Sox #3 starter.

    Aces are guys who are the best pitcher on the staff year in and year out. (Roy Oswalt, Pedro Martinez). In the NL, think a sub 3.25 ERA on a regular basis.

    Mid-Rotation guys are those guys who you can count on every year to be reliable and pretty successful, but probably won't ever challenge for a Cy-Young (Aaron Harang, Andy Pettite). In good years, they are bad #1's or good #2's. In bad years, they are bad #3's or good #4's. In the NL, think a 3.75 ERA with a half run in either direction depending on the year.

    End-of-the-Rotation guys could win you 12-14 games in a good year, but could also bomb and do more harm than good. (Jimmy Haynes, Glendon Rusch) In good years, they are solid #3's. In bad years, they shouldn't be in a rotation at all. The rest is all shades of gray. We have 2 very solid mid-rotation guys, 2 back of the rotation guys, and an unknown. In the NL, think 4.50 ERA with a half run on the upside and much more on the downside.

    I think we get too hung up on career averages or what a guy did last year. There's a ton of variability and unpredictability. For this reason, I love Nate Silver's PECOTA system. What we should reasonably be able to get is a guy who can give us a quality start more often than not with some upside of better than that; the guy who probably won't give us a 3.00 ERA, but definitely won't give us a 5.50 ERA either.

    I don't think we should pay 10-12MM for that. I think we need to be developing that. I think too often we get caught up in the need for our developed prospects to be stars. Many stars were not even hot stuff coming up. If it happens great. Sometimes guys do more than expected. However, if we could just start getting some major league regulars, it would remove a huge burden from our FA& trade needs. Every useful player came from somewhere. We shouldn't have to trade for or sign every piece of our rotation and quite frankly, we simply can't afford it.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-14-2006 at 12:49 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #13
    Member Topcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,934

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    My answer is find out what the Angel's want for Joe Saunders
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

  15. #14
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,271

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Every useful player came from somewhere. We shouldn't have to trade for or sign every piece of our rotation and quite frankly, we simply can't afford it.
    That's nice in theory, but it's exactly what the Reds have to do. Long term, yes the team should be able to develop some pitchers and work them in from the back of the rotation to the front, but for the time being, if the Reds want another pitcher to give them 200+ IP and a sub-4.00 ERA, then they're going to have to find that arm elsewhere.

    As for the cost, it's only expensive if you're signing free agents. Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo were inexpensive pickups (though the Reds had to wait a season and a half for Harang to put his game together). Those are the kinds of moves the Reds need to duplicate. Mind you, I do think the Reds could splurge on at least one member of the rotation.

    Anyway, if the Reds aren't looking outside their organizational walls for more starting pitching then they likely aren't going to be improving in that area in 2007.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #15
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    25,047

    Re: How do the Reds acquire a number three starter?

    There's one potential starter in the Reds' minors. One. And he's two years away, at best (which means he'll likely flame out and never see an inning as a Reds' pitcher). The Reds have zero choice but to deal.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25