Turn Off Ads?
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

  1. #1
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,284

    Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    This article is from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. I think it's indicative of how desperate teams are for starting pitching.

    'Not that crazy': Redbirds believe Looper can be a starter
    By Derrick Goold
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    Sunday, Dec. 17 2006

    Consider the climate of the Cardinals bullpen when Braden Looper was first presented with a peculiar idea.

    Rookie Anthony Reyes had recently found hanging in his locker an empty sunflower seed bucket, relabeled "Hair Gel" by a reliever. A short time later Looper retaliated for a prank pulled on him by grabbing scissors and tailoring two teammates' jeans. So when pitching coach Dave Duncan approached Looper late
    in the regular season about experimenting as a starter, the righthanded reliever braced for the punch line.

    "I thought he was joking," Looper said.

    "At the time it was just real casual. I thought we were fooling around with each other and he was having a little fun with me," the reliever continued. "Then he said, 'No, no, I'm serious.'"

    When Duncan shopped his notion after the playoffs, manager Tony La Russa and general manager Walt Jocketty shared Looper's initial shock. The suggestion was to make a starter out of a pitcher who since his freshman year at Wichita State had made 713 appearances, only 17 of which were starts. As far back as when they drafted in him in 1996, Looper was billed as the Cardinals' future closer. As recently as September he was considered for that job in Jason Isringhausen's absence.

    Now the Cardinals have failed to sign a few targeted free-agent starting pitchers this month and La Russa went public with the Looper Project. The response was surprise — and skepticism.

    No, no, Duncan is serious.

    "I don't think there's any question that physically he can handle the demands of being a starting pitcher," Duncan said Friday. "The question is, 'Does he have the pitches to be an effective starting pitcher?' (Jocketty and La Russa)
    had to think about it. I can understand that. We felt it was not that crazy of a thing to do. It's just something that has enough of a chance to work that it's worth trying."

    The Cardinals have made competitive offers to three starting pitchers who have chosen to sign elsewhere, leaving the World Series champions with two vacancies in their rotation. While hoping to sign at least one more pitcher, Jocketty has
    said the team is comfortable with its "internal candidates."

    Relievers Adam Wainwright, Brad Thompson and Looper will report to Jupiter, Fla., for spring training and begin a starter's regimen. Wainwright has 135 starts in 137 minor-league appearances and his future is as a starter. Thompson worked through the minors as a starter.

    Looper has more wild pitches as a pro than starts, 13 to 12.

    He hasn't started a game since 1997, only started five games before becoming an All-America closer in college, and has never started a game at a level higher than Class A.

    "He's durable. He's stronger," Jocketty said. "He has three or four quality pitches that he could better use in a starting role. Dave Duncan feels very strongly that he has all the assets it takes to be a quality starter."

    Duncan has done something like this before. When Oakland signed Dave Stewart in 1986, the righthander had just five starts in his previous 54 appearances. He became the ace of the A's. When Kent Bottenfield became a Cardinal, he had one start in his previous 154 appearances before making the first of 17 starts. The next year he won 18 games. But both pitchers had seasons of starting on their résumé before their bullpen years.

    As pitchers go, Looper's a bullpen lifer.

    The Cardinals brought him back last winter, signed him to a three-year deal and said he would be Isringhausen's setup guy and possible successor. But as he has traipsed from being the Marlins' closer to being the Mets' closer, miles have dropped off Looper's 98-mph fastball. He has become more reliant on his slider and has developed a split-finger fastball.

    Those are just some of the traits that got Duncan thinking.

    A season removed from shoulder surgery and stacking 220 pounds on a 6-foot-3 frame, Looper has the build to weather starting, Duncan said. Looper's breaking pitch became more consistent later in 2006, and Duncan saw a growing ability to use more than just two pitches when needed. Looper's healthy shoulder and slider worked to erase one glowing concern:

    Lefthanded batters.

    "I know some of it will be feeling my way through," Looper said last week. "And I know that if I make a start (the opponent) is going to put as many lefties as possible in there against me."

    In 2005, lefties slugged .578 against Looper, and of the 132 he faced, he struck out only eight. Before the 2006 All-Star break, 52 of the 160 batters he faced were lefties and they slugged .581 off him. But after the break, Looper reasserted the inside edge on lefties and hacked the gaudy numbers in half. He faced 60 lefties after the break, striking out nine and holding them all to a .196 average and .255 slugging percentage.

    Weeks after it was first mentioned, Duncan's idea crystallized for Looper in October.

    His career high for innings pitched in a major-league game is three. The fourth time that he has ever thrown that much was in the NL Championship Series, swallowing innings in a Game 4 loss. He had to face all hitters, had to use all four of his pitches. Looper allowed one run — a Carlos Beltran homer — and two hits to 10 batters.

    "It was a weird thing because I normally don't have to suck up the innings like that," Looper said. "But one thing I mentioned to Duncan ."‰."‰. one of my problems has been I stick with the pitches I know best, the ones I can count on, when I throw the one inning. That opportunity forced me to use my other pitches and I got comfortable."

    This offseason, Looper has dialed Wainwright, one of the teammates who had his jeans sheared into shorts, for tips on how best to prep to start. Wainwright thought he was joking, too. The belief it's a parlor trick or a patch for a championship club short on pitching will linger at least until Looper makes his first start. But as it has been for others in the organization, Looper's initial surprise and uncertainty has warmed to Duncan's plan.

    It is as Duncan said: "Not so crazy."

    "That was my first reaction," Looper said. "The more I thought about it, the more I have thought about, the more excited I get about the possibility. I'm giddy, really."
    Last edited by redsmetz; 12-18-2006 at 06:46 AM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,206

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Well, I feel better about the Reds rotation now.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  4. #3
    Member Jpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southern KY
    Posts
    6,967

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Those Cardinals, their so smart.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  5. #4
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    25,085

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    I doubt this one makes it past research and development, but if it does, it's a really poor choice.

  6. #5
    Firin Away Jr's Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,750

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    That Edmonds contract is looking real good right now.

  7. #6
    Member foxfire123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hell, aka Eastern Missouri.
    Posts
    712

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Did they learn nothing from the Reds' Danny Graves experiment?

    Foxfire123

  8. #7
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,628

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    In this day and age where the Ted Lillys of the world are paid outlandish salaries and the Jason Jennings are traded for packages beyond their abilities, I can see the Cardinals' logic in thinking outside the box. Derek Lowe made the transition.

    Really, if a team has a deep enough bullpen, it might work to get maximum value out of middle relievers by starting them and letting them pitch 80-90 pitches before turning the game over to fresh bullpen arms. Actually, Elmer Dessens passed for a major league starter for a few years that way.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    44

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    I think they are just running through options. I don't actually see Looper in the rotation given that he's only started several games and those occured at the lower minor league level...

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    1,362

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Why in the world would you take a 32 year old quality reliever who hasn't pitched more than 2 innings at a time in at least a decade and do that? You try that with a pitcher who's younger and doesn't have the mileage on his arm that Looper does. Also, no quality starter can have the middle name of LaVern. It just ain't right.

  11. #10
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,628

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath View Post
    Why in the world would you take a 32 year old quality reliever who hasn't pitched more than 2 innings at a time in at least a decade and do that?
    You take one look at the money being paid Jason Marquis, scratch your head, utter a curse, and look for any alternative to the craziness.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  12. #11
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Williamsburg, OH and the wilds.
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I doubt this one makes it past research and development, but if it does, it's a really poor choice.
    right on the money. if Looper was 24 or 25, and just coming off his first season as a successful middle man, it would make sense.
    the store for all your blade, costuming (in any regard), leather (also in any regard), and steel craft needs.www.facebook.com/tdhshop


    yes, this really is how we make our living.

  13. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,754

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Looper can't get out LH hitters. He's most effective when you isolate him for short periods of time against a predominate RH hitting lineup. He's get a fastball and little else.

    I can't imagine a worse choice to join the rotation.

  14. #13
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR (West Chester, OH)
    Posts
    6,091

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    Just like the article says- with Wainwright and Thompson around, why would you pick Looper to try in the rotation? I understand about the pitch assortments and such, but like we saw with Danny Graves, there's more to being a starter than just having offspeed stuff.

  15. #14
    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    570

    Re: Cardinals Considering Looper for Rotation

    I have seen a lot of decent to below average starters become good relief pitchers but rarely the other way around. That is why I don't understand why the BoSox are doing something similar.

    The last time I remember this happening with any great success is... Curt Shilling. Are there any other good examples?
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25