Blue Jays shopping Alex Rios for a starter

[UC_Ken]

OK this really isn't a Dunn vs. Rios argument.

It's deciding the value of Rios and if there is a match with toronto in terms of talent. Both teams are looking for pitching, so I have difficulty seeing a trade working here.

That is why I suggested a three way deal.

[edabbs44]

Ah, there it is, the back handed slam at Dunn. I sensed it coming.

Rios stole 44 bases in 7 years in the minors. Super. Just about any dude in the majors can steal 15 bases a year. BTW, Dunn has more career stolen bases than Rios, with a better success rate.

Get back to me when Rios actually does any of the things that for which you guys are touting him. He's never hit 20 HR's on any level.

Dunn has 4 more career SBs in well over double the games played. Excellent statistical analysis.

Again...it's all about projection. I'll try and remember to refresh this thread when Rios explodes this season.

[Patrick Bateman]

Toronto wants a 4th starter. You telling me that none of those guys would work?

Well I can tell you, there is few people on this board that would find that group good 4-5 starters. Milton is proven garbage, Dumatriat can't get AAA hitters out, and Ramirez is a bit of a mystery. he pitched well for awhile, but then he got misused and injured. It's hard to know what you can expect out of EZ.

[Patrick Bateman]

That is why I suggested a three way deal.

What team is looking to give up enough pitching to cover both Dunn and Rios?

[REDblooded]

That is why I suggested a three way deal.

Genius! Here it is.......

Dunn to the Angels.

Ervin Santana to the Jays

Rios and Shields to the Reds.

[edabbs44]

OK this really isn't a Dunn vs. Rios argument.

It's deciding the value of Rios and if there is a match with toronto in terms of talent. Both teams are looking for pitching, so I have difficulty seeing a trade working here.

The difference is that Toronto, somehow, has the financial flexibility to make themselves beter immediately. Cincy, either through poor ownership or worse financial status, cannot. Therefore, I would rather deal Arroyo before he comes crashing down. True he is the 2nd best pitcher on the team. But when your #3 is Milton, then you could have Johan as your #2 and it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

If Arroyo gives us an extremely cheap 2007-2008 of 35 wins and a 3.00 era, will it really matter? Will this team really be in the race, if the 2007 offseason is filled with more over the hill garbage?

[edabbs44]

Genius! Here it is.......

Dunn to the Angels.

Ervin Santana to the Jays

Rios and Shields to the Reds.

Like it, though then they couldn't even field a team next year. Unless, of course, they move to an all reliever pitching staff.

[pedro]

Dunn has 4 more career SBs in well over double the games played. Excellent statistical analysis.

Again...it's all about projection. I'll try and remember to refresh this thread when Rios explodes this season.

and a career OPS lead of over 130 points.

ANYWAY, good luck with that. I'll be waiting with baited breath.....

[REDblooded]

and a career OPS lead of over 130 points.

ANYWAY, good luck with that. I'll be waiting with baited breath.....

Grab a mint.

[pedro]

The difference is that Toronto, somehow, has the financial flexibility to make themselves beter immediately. Cincy, either through poor ownership or worse financial status, cannot. Therefore, I would rather deal Arroyo before he comes crashing down. True he is the 2nd best pitcher on the team. But when your #3 is Milton, then you could have Johan as your #2 and it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

If Arroyo gives us an extremely cheap 2007-2008 of 35 wins and a 3.00 era, will it really matter? Will this team really be in the race, if the 2007 offseason is filled with more over the hill garbage?

and yet that dude with the career OPS of .763 is really going to put us over the top in the abscence of of one of the two decent starters the Reds have? I don't buy it.

[REDblooded]

Like it, though then they couldn't even field a team next year. Unless, of course, they move to an all reliever pitching staff.

Why not? They'd still have the same starters they have now, but they would have added a legitimate closer.

[Patrick Bateman]

The difference is that Toronto, somehow, has the financial flexibility to make themselves beter immediately. Cincy, either through poor ownership or worse financial status, cannot. Therefore, I would rather deal Arroyo before he comes crashing down. True he is the 2nd best pitcher on the team. But when your #3 is Milton, then you could have Johan as your #2 and it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

If Arroyo gives us an extremely cheap 2007-2008 of 35 wins and a 3.00 era, will it really matter? Will this team really be in the race, if the 2007 offseason is filled with more over the hill garbage?

I have no problem sending Arroyo out right now, but it better be for a huge return. He is one of the few guys on the Reds with loads of value. On the open market he owuld be getting 15M+. He has incredible value, so if he is dealt, it better be in a franchise altering move, not in a move to simply wave the white flag.

And milton is hardly the number 3. Lohse is a better pitcher, and I bet a guy like Belisle could post better numbers than him.

[Edd Roush]

Why not? They'd still have the same starters they have now, but they would have added a legitimate closer.

What good is a legitimate closer when you will never have a lead going into the 9th inning?

[pedro]

Rios is a young stud and in the long run I say he ends up having a better big league career than Bronson.

I bet Joey Votto has a better career than Alex Rios. His minor league numbers sure seem to project that.

[edabbs44]

and a career OPS lead of over 130 points.

ANYWAY, good luck with that. I'll be waiting with baited breath.....

I was just responding to your mentioning of Dunn's 4 SB lead over Rios. No mention of OPS.

But I brought this up in another thread...I love the spinning of any posting related to Adam Dunn and, to some extent, Arroyo as well.

Does no one care that Dunn's numbers are sliding? Does no one care that "regression to the mean", one of everyone's favorite sayings on this board, is a great was to describe Arroyo?

Dunn costs MILLIONS more than Rios. I guess that doesn't matter.

Dunn is a sloth in the OF while Rios is a pretty good fielder, at the very least.

Dunn had 40 HRs last year and a SLG of .490. Rios had 17 HRs and a SLG of .516. I guess Rios doesn't need to hit even 20 HRs to match the likes of 40 HR per year hitters.


Let's just try and look at things in a balanced way. My first thought was that Arroyo would be a good match. I didn't bring this into the Dunn realm, but since it happened anyway, I felt that it was my duty to respond.