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Thread: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

  1. #1
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Due to much talk on the board about rebuilding I offer two questions?

    It's two weeks before the trade deadline 2007 what place are the Reds in and who are you dealing?


    I feel the Reds are in third place and too far back to make a run at the Redbirds and Baby Bears.

    I deal Hatte
    Stanton
    Weathers
    Griffey

    I would also listen to offers on Arroyo and Harang

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    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    There are no untouchables on the Reds 25-man roster.

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    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    How many times are we going to have to rebuild this house before it gets done the right way?
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

  5. #4
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    8-10 games back... start dealing July 15th.

    Dunn
    Arroyo
    Hatte
    Stanton (he's used to it)
    Womack ( ) JK
    Castro
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    How many times are we going to have to rebuild this house before it gets done the right way?
    Good question. I will say... Twice. Any takers on three?
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Here's who you deal:

    Hatteberg
    Weathers
    Cormier
    Stanton
    Griffey
    Milton

    Try to get some good prospects in return and build the offense around Dunn, Encarnacion and the rotation around Harang, Arroyo. You then call up the likes of Bailey, Votto, Salmon, etc. Make Votto an everyday player at firstbase, put Homer in the rotation, and give Salmon a chance to be our closer (along with Bray).

    Now, do I see us doing this? Nope, considering we have Bob "Win Now" Castellini as our owner. I think it is probably a good idea, but I just seriously doubt we would rebuild.
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    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    8-10 games back... start dealing July 15th.

    Dunn
    Arroyo
    Hatte
    Stanton (he's used to it)
    Womack ( ) JK
    Castro
    I like your list but would like to add who ever the RH 1st basemen is.
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

  9. #8
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Agreed with NJReds.

    It depends on what moves are made the rest of this offseason, but assuming nothing big happens, and we're completely out of the race on August 29th, I listen to offers for Arroyo, Harang, and Dunn in particular. Ross if he's having another decnet year as well.

    The others: Stanton, Weathers, Milton, Griffey, Hatteberg, Cormier, Majewski, Valentin, Gonzalez etc, I'm shopping all of the time, not just "if we're out of it."

    The players I look to keep are: Edwin for sure, and maybe Phillips and Denorfia depending on how their seasons are going next year.

    The only one I don't want to deal in reality is Edwin.



    Harang and Arroyo should each net me 2 starting players, whether position players or pitchers, with very high ceilings. Dunn should do the same. Ross should net me a solid prospect (if he's having another good season). You deal those 4 players and you should get back 7 very, very good young players. You add those to Edwin, Votto, Bruce, and Homer and we may be onto something.
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    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leader View Post
    Agreed with NJReds.

    It depends on what moves are made the rest of this offseason, but assuming nothing big happens, and we're completely out of the race on August 29th, I listen to offers for Arroyo, Harang, and Dunn in particular. Ross if he's having another decnet year as well.

    The others: Stanton, Weathers, Milton, Griffey, Hatteberg, Cormier, Majewski, Valentin, Gonzalez etc, I'm shopping all of the time, not just "if we're out of it."

    The players I look to keep are: Edwin for sure, and maybe Phillips and Denorfia depending on how their seasons are going next year.

    The only one I don't want to deal in reality is Edwin.



    Harang and Arroyo should each net me 2 starting players, whether position players or pitchers, with very high ceilings. Dunn should do the same. Ross should net me a solid prospect (if he's having another good season). You deal those 4 players and you should get back 7 very, very good young players. You add those to Edwin, Votto, Bruce, and Homer and we may be onto something.
    I would guess it would be pretty hard to trade 13 players. Even if you could it would be hard to get value out of all them. If you did get value out of them it would net you very good prospects most likely, not very good players. Not all good prospects turn into good players.
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

  11. #10
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    I like your list but would like to add who ever the RH 1st basemen is.
    I know this sounds a little crazy BUT I wouldn't mind the Reds acquiring Lance Niekro. I know I know I know... He hasn't exactly RAKED the last two seasons. I'm not sure THAT player is out there at a reasonable price. Lance is 27 and still relatively cheap. I do believe that he can improve and be productive in GABP as a platoon player. A change of scenery, new hitting coach and less pressure may help him. The death of his father may really push him too. I'd rather acquire him on the cheap than overpay for some of the FA names out there.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  12. #11
    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    I know this sounds a little crazy BUT I wouldn't mind the Reds acquiring Lance Niekro. I know I know I know... He hasn't exactly RAKED the last two seasons. I'm not sure THAT player is out there at a reasonable price. Lance is 27 and still relatively cheap. I do believe that he can improve and be productive in GABP as a platoon player. A change of scenery, new hitting coach and less pressure may help him. The death of his father may really push him too. I'd rather acquire him on the cheap than overpay for some of the FA names out there.
    SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    2003 SF 5 5 2 1 1 0 0 2 0 1 0 0 .200 .200 .400 .600
    2005 SF 113 278 32 70 16 3 12 46 17 53 0 2 .252 .295 .460 .755
    2006 SF 66 199 27 49 9 2 5 31 11 32 0 0 .246 .286 .387 .673

    Sure why not. Better than nothing. I am always for the underdog.
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

  13. #12
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    I would guess it would be pretty hard to trade 13 players. Even if you could it would be hard to get value out of all them. If you did get value out of them it would net you very good prospects most likely, not very good players. Not all good prospects turn into good players.
    I'm honestly not looking to get much for any of the players I labeled as "the others."

    The only ones I'm looking to score big on are: Arroyo, Harang, and Dunn. If Ross has a real good 1st half, I'd hope to do well in that trade as well.

    For one of the above I'd be looking at a package like 3 of Elijah Dukes, Reid Brignac, Jeff Niemann, Juan Salas, or Jacob McGee from the Rays (just as an example).
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
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  14. #13
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    I know this sounds a little crazy BUT I wouldn't mind the Reds acquiring Lance Niekro. I know I know I know... He hasn't exactly RAKED the last two seasons. I'm not sure THAT player is out there at a reasonable price. Lance is 27 and still relatively cheap. I do believe that he can improve and be productive in GABP as a platoon player. A change of scenery, new hitting coach and less pressure may help him. The death of his father may really push him too. I'd rather acquire him on the cheap than overpay for some of the FA names out there.
    Good call, TC. As a platoon partner with Hatte, he could be just what the doctor ordered. Here is what he's done against lefties in his career:

    BA OBP SLG OPS
    .296 .330 .574 .904
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    I think ultimately, with the crazy money being thrown around is what the Reds should do. I would wait to deal until the trade deadline mid season. I'm sure we're not going anywhere, but why not test it out? Teams will be willing to give up more when they are in a race at the deadline too.

    I also agree that no players are untouchable for the right deal. I do think Dunn is someone that should for sure be traded if it's clear we're not going anywhere only because his value will be high come the trade deadline and I do believe you will be able to get some stud prospects for him who are further along than A ball.

    I do think you still try to lock up Harrang now too. I think if we get the right prospects for the established talent we have now who are at the right level, we'll be in good shape in 2-3 years. Which seems like an eternity from now, but we have previous owners and GMs to thank for that. If we keep trying to run out a mediocre team and buying mediocre talent, we're never going to get better. We're only digging deeper holes as we could be trading away some folks and making our team MUCH better for the future. Trust me, I want more than anything to see the Reds return to glory, but they're going to have to get worse again before they get better in today's market.

  16. #15
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: When is it time to rebuild who gets dealt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    2003 SF 5 5 2 1 1 0 0 2 0 1 0 0 .200 .200 .400 .600
    2005 SF 113 278 32 70 16 3 12 46 17 53 0 2 .252 .295 .460 .755
    2006 SF 66 199 27 49 9 2 5 31 11 32 0 0 .246 .286 .387 .673

    Sure why not. Better than nothing. I am always for the underdog.
    Me too and if it works, which it may, he's still relatively young at 27.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigKlu View Post
    Good call, TC. As a platoon partner with Hatte, he could be just what the doctor ordered. Here is what he's done against lefties in his career:

    BA OBP SLG OPS
    .296 .330 .574 .904
    Agreed. I would also think he may be expendable with the Giants but who really knows?? I'm not sure what it would take to land him. Maybe Shack and an A Baller?
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08


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