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Thread: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

  1. #1
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    In glancing at some stats today, I noticed a Ewell Blackwell's 1947 season and that got me wondering about Reds pitchers who would have won a Cy Young Award had the award existed. Of course, the Reds have had numerous CYA winners pitch for them, but no Red has won the award (although I think Tom Seaver was robbed one of his season's with the ballclub).

    Prior to the awards inception, three seasons stand out as one's that would have won the award back then:

    1923 Dolf Luque 27-8, 151 K's, 1.93 ERA

    1939 Bucky Walters 27-11, 137 K's, 2.29 ERA (31 complete games!)
    (Walters was the league MVP that season)

    1947 Ewell Blackwell 22-8, 193 K's, 2.47 ERA

    I may be missing others that folks can add and maybe there was some "Pitcher of the Year" award I'm just not aware of.

    Just at a glance, that 1923 season looks as if it might have been one of the best overall seasons in history with some pretty good clubs that year.

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  3. #2
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Noodles Hahn 1902

    NATIONAL LEAGUE
    SEASON
    1902
    Code:
    WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    LOSSES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE      W        L      RSAA    
    1    Jack Taylor                1.45     1.33     2.78       23       11       45   
    2    Noodles Hahn               1.01     1.77     2.78       23       12       47   
    3    Jesse Tannehill            0.83     1.95     2.78       20        6       21   
    4    Deacon Phillippe           0.73     2.05     2.78       20        9       22   
    5    Christy Mathewson          0.66     2.11     2.78       14       17       23   
    6    Jack Chesbro               0.61     2.17     2.78       28        6       19   
    7    Vic Willis                 0.58     2.20     2.78       27       20       19   
    8    Luther Taylor              0.49     2.29     2.78        7       15       13   
    9    Sam Leever                 0.39     2.39     2.78       16        7        9   
    10   Doc Newton                 0.36     2.42     2.78       15       14        4

  4. #3
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Mario Soto and Tom Seaver both had a great season in 1981 for the best team in the major leagues, but lost out to the rookie phenom from LA.

    Code:
    Player              G    ERA   W   L  SV  GS  GF  CG SHO   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  ERA+
    Mario Soto          25   3.29  12   9  0  25   0  10   3  175.0  142   69   64  13   61  151  108
    Tom Seaver          23   2.54  14   2  0  23   0   6   1  166.3  120   51   47  10   66   87  140
    
    
    Fernando Valenzuela 25   2.48  13   7  0  25   0  11   8  192.3  140   55   53  11   61  180  134

  5. #4
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Soto did finish runner-up in 1983. I forgot how good this guy was and he played on some terrible teams.

    Code:
    Rk Name             Team 1st-Place Points |  W-L   IP  ERA   WHIP  SO 
      1 John Denny        PHI   20    103     | 19-6  243  2.37  1.16 139   
      2 Mario Soto        CIN    2     61     | 17-13 274  2.70  1.10 242
    Edit: What I've posted answers your headline, but not the gist of your post.

  6. #5
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    MODERN (1900-)
    
    WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    LOSSES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                           YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE      W        L      RSAA    
    1    Dolf Luque               1923     2.07     1.93     3.99       27        8       66   
    2    Dolf Luque               1925     1.64     2.63     4.27       16       18       45   
    3    Bucky Walters            1939     1.63     2.29     3.91       27       11       58   
    4    Ewell Blackwell          1947     1.60     2.47     4.07       22        8       37   
    5    Jose Rijo                1993     1.56     2.48     4.05       14        9       44   
    6    Elmer Riddle             1941     1.39     2.24     3.63       19        4       30   
    7    Eppa Rixey               1925     1.38     2.89     4.27       21       11       36   
    8    Bucky Walters            1940     1.37     2.48     3.85       22       10       42   
    9    Bucky Walters            1944     1.21     2.40     3.61       23        8       27   
    10   Bronson Arroyo           2006     1.20     3.29     4.49       14       11       41

  7. #6
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Had there been a Cy Young award at the time, Bucky Walters almost certainly would have been a three time winner (and those three Cy Young awards might have been enough to put him in the Hall of Fame). Redmetz has already mentioned Walters's greatest season, 1939, when he was NL MVP and won pitching's triple crown by leading the NL in wins (27), ERA (2.29) and strikeouts (137). Walters would also have won the Cy Young award in 1940, when he lead the NL in wins with 22, ERA (2.48), complete games (29) and innings pitched (305). He probably would have picked up his third Cy Young award in 1944; he lead the NL in wins with 23, while finishing second in shutouts (6), complete games (27) and ERA (2.40).
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  8. #7
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    IIRC, many have rated Luque's 1923 as the best season by an NL pitcher in the 1920s.

    redszmetz, in addition to the three seasons you listed above, my Palmer/Gillette baseball encyclopedia lists Walters as deserving the NL Cy Young in 1940 and 1944 as well (and if anyone's vague on who the best pitcher ever to don a Reds uniform is, that should clear up the confusion). Johnny Vander Meer won the Sporting News NL pitcher of the year award in 1938 (though it's fairly impossible to argue the Cubs' Big Bill Lee didn't have a better year).

    Win Shares rates Bob Purkey as the deserving winner of the 1962 NL Cy Young, over Sandy Koufax, and Mario Soto as the deserving 1983 winner, over John Denny (though it might have been 1982 over Steve Carlton, don't have it in front of me).

    You can make a strong case for Tom Seaver in 1981 and 1977. Jim Maloney suffered from bad timing. He had some great years, but Koufax and Juan Marichal were full-tilt insane in his best seasons.
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Danny Jackson's performance in 1988 in many seasons would have won him a Cy Young Award. 23 wins, 15 complete games, 2.73 ERA....

  10. #9
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Pete Schourek in 1995.

    Code:
     Year Ag Tm  Lg  W   L   G   GS  CG SHO  GF SV   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  HBP  WP  BFP  IBB  BK  ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
    1995 26 CIN NL  18   7  29  29   2   0   0  0  190.3  158   72   68  17   45  160   8   1   754   3   1  3.22  4.10  128 1.067
    He finished 2nd in the Cy Young balloting to a much more deserving Gred Maddux that season.
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  11. #10
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Paul Derringer had a few very nice seasons, especially his three season stretch from 1938-1940, though he was usually playing second-fiddle on a pitching staff that had Bucky Walters as the staff ace.
    Code:
    PAUL DERRINGER
    
    GIVEN NAME: Samuel Paul Derringer
    BORN: 10/17/1906  Springfield, Kentucky  DIED: 11/17/1987  Sarasota, Florida
    BAT: R  THROW: R  HEIGHT: 6'3"  WEIGHT: 205  MLB DEBUT: 4/16/1931
    
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
    1931 Cardinals    24  18   8  .692   35  23  15   2  10  212    225   88   79   65  134   3.35   17 
    1932 Cardinals    25  11  14  .440   39  30  14   0   4  233    296  133  105   67   78   4.06   -3 
    1933 Cardinals    26   0   2  .000    3   2   1   0   1   17     24   11    8    9    3   4.24   -2 
         Reds         26   7  25  .219   33  31  16   1   2  231    240  106   83   51   86   3.23    2 
         TOTALS            7  27  .206   36  33  17   1   3  248    264  117   91   60   89   3.30    0 
    1934 Reds         27  15  21  .417   47  31  18   4  15  261    297  129  104   59  122   3.59   19 
    1935 Reds         28  22  13  .629   45  33  20   2   9  277    295  132  108   49  120   3.51    7 
    1936 Reds         29  19  19  .500   51  37  13   5  10  282    331  147  126   42  121   4.02   -4 
    1937 Reds         30  10  14  .417   43  26  12   1  12  223    240  112  100   55   94   4.04  -11 
    1938 Reds         31  21  14  .600   41  37  26   3   4  307    315  110  100   49  132   2.93   24 
    1939 Reds         32  25   7  .781   38  35  28   0   1  301    321  115   98   35  128   2.93   33 
    1940 Reds         33  20  12  .625   37  37  26   0   0  297    280  110  101   48  115   3.06   22 
    1941 Reds         34  12  14  .462   29  28  17   1   1  228    233   91   84   54   76   3.32    4 
    1942 Reds         35  10  11  .476   29  27  13   0   0  209    203   83   71   49   68   3.06    6 
    1943 Cubs         36  10  14  .417   32  22  10   3   7  174    184   90   69   39   75   3.57   -4 
    1944 Cubs         37   7  13  .350   42  16   7   3  17  180    205   96   83   39   69   4.15  -10 
    1945 Cubs         38  16  11  .593   35  30  15   4   5  214    223   99   82   51   86   3.45    4 
         TOTALS          223 212  .513  579 445 251  29  98 3646   3912 1652 1401  761 1507   3.46  104 
         LG AVERAGE      202 202  .500          194  16     3646   3811 1797 1531 1206 1355   3.78    0 
    
    YEAR TEAM          HR  H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO WP  IBB HBP BFP   BK  NW  NL
    1931 Cardinals      9  9.55 12.48  5.69  2.76  2.06   4   6   0   4   901  0  15  11 
    1932 Cardinals      6 11.43 14.10  3.01  2.59  1.16   1   9   0   2  1043  0  12  13 
    1933 Cardinals      0 12.71 18.00  1.59  4.76  0.33   0   1   0   1    84  0   1   1 
         Reds           4  9.35 11.53  3.35  1.99  1.69   2   6   0   5   961  0  16  16 
         TOTALS         4  9.58 11.98  3.23  2.18  1.48   2   7   0   6  1045  0  17  17 
    1934 Reds           8 10.24 12.41  4.21  2.03  2.07   1   7   0   4  1128  0  21  15 
    1935 Reds          13  9.58 11.31  3.90  1.59  2.45   3   2   0   4  1153  0  19  16 
    1936 Reds          11 10.56 12.03  3.86  1.34  2.88   2   6   0   4  1207  2  18  20 
    1937 Reds           7  9.69 11.91  3.79  2.22  1.71   1   0   0   0   963  0  11  13 
    1938 Reds          20  9.23 10.67  3.87  1.44  2.69   4   1   0   0  1263  0  21  14 
    1939 Reds          15  9.60 10.73  3.83  1.05  3.66   5   2   0   3  1245  0  20  12 
    1940 Reds          17  8.48  9.94  3.48  1.45  2.40   3   1   0   0  1205  0  19  13 
    1941 Reds          17  9.20 11.33  3.00  2.13  1.41   2   2   0   0   950  0  14  12 
    1942 Reds           4  8.74 11.02  2.93  2.11  1.39   1   0   0   4   872  0  11  10 
    1943 Cubs           7  9.52 11.53  3.88  2.02  1.92   2   3   0   0   743  0  11  13 
    1944 Cubs          13 10.25 12.20  3.45  1.95  1.77   0   2   0   0   772  0   9  11 
    1945 Cubs           7  9.38 11.57  3.62  2.14  1.69   1   2   0   1   901  0  14  13 
         TOTALS       158  9.66 11.61  3.72  1.88  1.98  32  50   0  32 15391  2 232 203 
         LG AVERAGE   197  9.41 12.54  3.34  2.98  1.12  27  64   0  63 15716  6 
    
    
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  12. #11
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    in 1961 Joey Jay won 21 and led the NL but Whitey Ford was 25-4 for the Yanks. In 62 Purkey was 23-5 but lost out to Drysdale 25-9.In 63 Maloney was 23-7 but lost out to Kofax. In 65 Sammy Ellis was 22-10 but he to lost out to a deserving Kofax.
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  13. #12
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainspark View Post
    Danny Jackson's performance in 1988 in many seasons would have won him a Cy Young Award. 23 wins, 15 complete games, 2.73 ERA....
    ...and Tom Browning went 18-5 with a perfect game...

    Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.

  14. #13
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    The only reason Danny jackson didn't win the Cy Young that year was because Hershiser had that scoreless inning streak at the end of the season.
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  15. #14
    Plays The Right Way Hap's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    The fourteenth post on this thread is the first one to remind everyone that Aaron Harang got zero votes and zero points in 2006, once again proving that the Cy Young Award is a farcical popularity contest.

    Harang led the league in wins, strikeouts, games started, and complete games. He was second in shutouts, third in innings pitched, and eleventh in ERA.
    .

  16. #15
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Who Had Cy Young Award Type Seasons?

    Harang led the league in wins, strikeouts, games started, and complete games. He was second in shutouts, third in innings pitched, and eleventh in ERA.
    Yet according to ERA vs the league Bronson had the better season, and in fact the 10th best season in Reds modern history.

    How many votes and points did he get?

    Anyone?


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