Reds Trade For Conine

[Spring~Fields]

Not really. The acquisitions, especially in the pen, have done nothing but serve the purpose of pushing guys off the roster who are about the same but make the minimum. Salmon and Coutlangus would have served the same purpose as Stanton and Weathers IMO. I'd rather have those guys at the minimum than what little upgrade Stanton and Weathers provide (if any) if the money saved could be put into a real upgrade somewhere. I'd rather have a decent number 3 starter with the young guys in the pen, than Lohse with Weathers and Stanton. The choice is really paying a number 3 $10 Million with a couple pen guys who make 400K each or having Lohse with Weathers and Stanton.

The same is happening now with Conine pushing Harris off the Roster. Harris could have probably platooned at 1B with Hat just as well. Better/cheaper options though were all around. Minor league free agents like Josh Phelps and JR House could have been had for much cheaper and offered more upside. If the Reds could waste a 40 man roster spot and a major league contract on the likes of Bubba Crosby and Chad Moeller than one could have been offered to a Phelps or a House. They signed minor league deals and I presume a major league deal with a real opening in front of them would have gotten them here.

This deal isn't terrible but seems like another "path of least resistence" move. Wayne gets Conine because the Phillies sign Werth and Conine is the odd man out. Sounds a lot like Arroyo being the odd man out in Boston, Ross the odd man out, Phillips the odd man out, Hatteberg completely unemployed. Wk seems to just get the guys nobody else wants anymore. Some of those moves worked out, but is he really capable of making tough creative moves? His only attempt was a huge failure. The rest has just been bottom feeding no matter how it may have worked out. To me it seems like he only sees the obvious moves and offers no creativity when it comes to improving this team. Even another obvious Eduardo Perez move would have been cheaper and more on target in addressing the team's needs.

You really nail it and see down the road, while reading the past and present so well.

[mth123]

Are you serious? Salmon+Coutlangus+Harris=52 major league appearances, all by Harris. Heck, Coutlangus only has two TRIPLE A appearances. You can't just throw out names and expect they'll produce like the veterans you've named, regardless of what you may save in salary.

I think its very reasonable to assume that Harris could play 1B against LH and hit .260 with no power. Now we pay $2 Million for it and while I'm not all that concerned about the loss of Moran, he could have been used in a deal for something else at least.

As for Weathers, he is a 5+ ERA waiting to happen. If his BABIP of .236 from 2006 isn't repeated, his high walk and hr rates will catch-up with him. So yes, I'd rather have Salmon with his hard stuff and $400K salary than Weathers smoke and mirrors (not much smoke in the baseball sense) at $2.5 Million plus for the next 2 years.

Stanton will probably be ok, but is no better alternative in his role than Bray or even the dreaded Cormier. The Reds didn't need to pay $2.5 Million plus for a 3rd LH with Coutlangus, Shackleford, Pelland and Dumatrait all laying around with no roster spot available. That 3rd LH is probably going to be relegated to mop-up/LOOGY duties and the role was easily filled.

$7 Million from these 3 added to the $6 Million the Reds will already be spending on Kyle Lohse to be the number 3 starter could have been put toward a real fix at one or two of the real need areas. WK spent the money on CDs and and an extra sweater when the fridge was empty. It doesn't make the CDs awful or the sweater completely useless, but it won't matter if you starve to death.

[jojo]

I think its very reasonable to assume that Harris could play 1B against LH and hit .260 with no power. Now we pay $2 Million for it and while I'm not all that concerned about the loss of Moran, he could have been used in a deal for something else at least.

As for Weathers, he is a 5+ ERA waiting to happen. If his BABIP of .236 from 2006 isn't repeated, his high walk and hr rates will catch-up with him. So yes, I'd rather have Salmon with his hard stuff and $400K salary than Weathers smoke and mirrors (not much smoke in the baseball sense) at $2.5 Million plus for the next 2 years.

Stanton will probably be ok, but is no better alternative in his role than Bray or even the dreaded Cormier. The Reds didn't need to pay $2.5 Million plus for a 3rd LH with Coutlangus, Shackleford, Pelland and Dumatrait all laying around with no roster spot available. That 3rd LH is probably going to be relegated to mop-up/LOOGY duties and the role was easily filled.

$7 Million from these 3 added to the $6 Million the Reds will already be spending on Kyle Lohse to be the number 3 starter could have been put toward a real fix at one or two of the real need areas. WK spent the money on CDs and and an extra sweater when the fridge was empty. It doesn't make the CDs awful or the sweater completely useless, but it won't matter if you starve to death.

I absolutely agree..... alot of people forget the hidden costs of decisions made while formulating the roster--------opportunity costs....

[Redhook]

I think its very reasonable to assume that Harris could play 1B against LH and hit .260 with no power. Now we pay $2 Million for it and while I'm not all that concerned about the loss of Moran, he could have been used in a deal for something else at least.

As for Weathers, he is a 5+ ERA waiting to happen. If his BABIP of .236 from 2006 isn't repeated, his high walk and hr rates will catch-up with him. So yes, I'd rather have Salmon with his hard stuff and $400K salary than Weathers smoke and mirrors (not much smoke in the baseball sense) at $2.5 Million plus for the next 2 years.

Stanton will probably be ok, but is no better alternative in his role than Bray or even the dreaded Cormier. The Reds didn't need to pay $2.5 Million plus for a 3rd LH with Coutlangus, Shackleford, Pelland and Dumatrait all laying around with no roster spot available. That 3rd LH is probably going to be relegated to mop-up/LOOGY duties and the role was easily filled.

$7 Million from these 3 added to the $6 Million the Reds will already be spending on Kyle Lohse to be the number 3 starter could have been put toward a real fix at one or two of the real need areas. WK spent the money on CDs and and an extra sweater when the fridge was empty. It doesn't make the CDs awful or the sweater completely useless, but it won't matter if you starve to death.

Well said.

This roster is starving to death for difference makers, not pillow fluffers. It's hard to tell how much money is left or, really, what is actually going on. The bottom line is this:

This team could compete if a solid #3 or better was acquired along with a very good right-handed bat (preferably a CF). The cost of those two would probably be around #20 million/year. I'd rather two players like that and fill up the remaining spots with 400K players rather than sprinkle all the money around on $2-$5 million players. I believe the Reds had the money to do that. Now, we'll never know because Wayne is making moves ass-backwards.

[Danny Serafini]

A possible postscript on this move from Marc's blog:

After being designated for assignment yesterday, Brendan Harris told his hometown paper he expects to be traded again.

Makes sense that the Reds would try to get something for Harris, who would've been an extreme longshot to make the big-league roster this spring. If they need reinforcements at the positions he can play, they can use Olmedo or Bergolla.

I think Marc may have checked out for Tampa already, someone should tell him Bergolla isn't an option anymore.

[Matt700wlw]

Everyone begs for *good* moves. They are disgusted with *bad* moves.

Wouldn't it be fair to not judge a move "good" or "bad" until after it plays out?

With that.....I don't think it's a bad move per se, but there are more pressing needs at the moment.

[jmac]

Concerning wilson , we know hatteberg is gonna play vs the righties and the NL isnt loaded with many lefties.
So my guess is wilson wouldnt come here for the same reason aurilia wanted to leave.....more playing time.
Aurilia started several games at 2nd, ss ,3rd and first.
Wilson would be at 1st with an occasional OF start !(unless injury)

[Spring~Fields]

Wouldn't it be fair to not judge a move "good" or "bad" until after it plays out?

With that.....I don't think it's a bad move per se, but there are more pressing needs at the moment.

It is not always a matter of whether the move was “good” or “bad” but whether the move was adequate enough to upgrade the team to a winning status from a history of losing. The question should be, do these moves make the Reds a winner, can they now win more games than they lose?

[Highlifeman21]

A possible postscript on this move from Marc's blog:

After being designated for assignment yesterday, Brendan Harris told his hometown paper he expects to be traded again.

Makes sense that the Reds would try to get something for Harris, who would've been an extreme longshot to make the big-league roster this spring. If they need reinforcements at the positions he can play, they can use Olmedo or Bergolla.

I think Marc may have checked out for Tampa already, someone should tell him Bergolla isn't an option anymore.

Glad I didn't bet money that Brendan Harris would be on the 25 man roster when the team heads North from Sarasota...

Depending on the return of a potential Harris trade, this could make "The Trade" look even worse.