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Thread: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

  1. #16
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath View Post
    If I'm Mike Brown I might seriously consider making a coaching change. He gave control of the franchise to Marvin Lewis and now they have a team full of undisciplined players who are constantly screwing up off the field. If you can't make good decisions off the field how can you make good ones on the field?

    This is utterly ludicrous.

    Who directly cost the Bengals the Denver game?

    * Carson Palmer
    * Chad Johnson
    * Rudi Johnson
    * Brad St. Louis
    * Kyle Larson

    All good citizens off the field, as far as any of us know.

    This crap about arrests leading to the Bengals disappointing season is media narrative and nothing else. Their choke-job has nothing to do with Chris Henry shooting up a club or AJ Nicholson breaking into a dorm room. It has everything to do with the defense being poorly coached and ravaged by injuries and the offensive unit underachieving for the vast majority of the year.

    People parroting this garbage just prolongs its lifespan in the media.

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  3. #17
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    It was perhaps the worst call I've ever seen (that Oregon/Oklahoma debacle is up there too).

    But ultimately the blame for (likely) missing the playoffs rests on the shoulders of the Bengals. They contolled their own destiny and didn't get it done.
    I agree with all of this. That is by far the worst call I've ver seen on any level in football, and maybe for any sport. But the Bengals still blew the big lead to San Diego without help from the refs. They botched an extra point that might have put them int he playoffs. They laid a big egg against Atlanta. While that game was a direct result of the refs, the rest of the games were all on them.

    And M2's argument isn't fair here. Much like the worst teams in baseball still win over 50 times a year, even the worst offenses can score from time to time given enough opportunities. The Royals didn't go 0-162 last year and the Buccaneers have scored 204 points in 15 games. They've score an average of 13.6 points per game and they scored 14 against the Bengals.

    It's different if that call was made in the first half, or even early in the 4th quarter. But the game is OVER without that call. The Bengals take the field and take a knee a couple of times and that's it. They wouldn't have had to run a single play. That completely changes any "they still had their chance" arguments.

    And saying Mike Brown should get rid of Lewis is one of the dumbest things I've ver read.
    Last edited by MWM; 12-29-2006 at 12:29 PM.
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  4. #18
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    There were a lot of bad, or questionable calls this season all over the NFL.

    Thems the breaks, I guess...

  5. #19
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    See, they did keep the league's second worst offfense from scoring: They sacked the QB, caused the fumble, recovered said fumble and then had that play overturned by a lousy call.

    A defensive team should not have to stop an offense over and over again due to officiating.
    True, but good ones do it all the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Heffner
    It's almost as if you are arguing that if a kicker booted a field goal through the uprights to win a game by one point, it would be that team's fault for losing when the official called it no good. They shouldn't have been losing the game to begin with, right?
    I can't make heads or tails of that analogy so I'll just go with no, it's nothing like what I'm arguing here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Heffner
    This "shouldn't be in that position" argument works if the call is early in the game, but when it happens at the end, it's a completely different story.
    I never said anything like "shouldn't be in that position." Teams are constantly in that position. I looked it up, the Bengals are 2-5 in games decided by seven points or less. The New England Patriots are 5-2. Contenders win those games. Pretenders lose them. I think you'll find that's a pretty consistent dividing line between the better and lesser teams in the league and you can be sure many of those better teams faced their share of bad calls along the way. They just happen to turn those calls into moot points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Heffner
    If were going to talk about positions, why not say this: The Bengals put themselves in a position to win the game and the referee blew a call and caused them to lose the game?
    No, the referee blew a call and two-plus minutes later the Bengals lost the game. I'd have some sympathy if this was a situation where a field goal decided a game and the ref's call put the other team into easy field goal territory, but it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Heffner
    If you are winning by 6 points and you sack the QB and recover his fumble with under 2 minutes to play, I'd say you were in a pretty good position wouldn't you?
    I'd say a truly good team would shake off that kind of call and make the necessary stops to win itself a football game. I'd say a lesser team folds when it gets a bad call. I'd say Bengals fans who blame the official for that loss have directed their anger at the wrong target. The Bucs weren't even in the red zone after that call. A good defense, something I take it the Bengals lack, regroups and keeps a bad offense like Tampa Bay's out of the end zone.
    Last edited by M2; 12-29-2006 at 01:15 PM.
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  6. #20
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Roughing the passer, was over called in both college and the NFL this year. Especially early in the seasons. One play that springs to mind is the OSU/Texas game and the sack of Colt McCoy before the end of the first half that was ruled roughing. It was possibly a worse call than the Justin Smith call, except it didn't cost OSU the game. Several other times early on it was called, yet unexplicably Carson Palmer, one of the reasons that it was called tighter this year, got ear holed more times than I care to remember without flags being thrown, especially for being hit late. Michigan fans will debate this, but about the only time late in the season I saw it called where it deserved to be called, was on the hit on Troy Smith along the sidelines, where Shawn Crable led with his helmet, while Troy was already out of bounds. Otherwise, they really let off on that penalty.
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  7. #21
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'd say a truly good team would shake off that kind of call and make the necessary stops to win itself a football game.
    The problem for the Bengals there is that the "team" doesn't get a chance to overcome that kind of call, only the weakest part of team (the defense) gets a chance to overcome it.

    I think the majority of Bengals fans understand this isn't a championship caliber team. However, they are building towards that possibility and I'd like to see them get some experience in the playoffs.

    I'd say a lesser team folds when it gets a bad call. I'd say Bengals fans who blame the official for that loss have directed their anger at the wrong target.
    If the correct call is made, the Bengals win the game. I think the official is the correct target for the majority of the blame here. The Bengals defense shoulders a small portion of the reponsibility since they had a chance to win the game a 2nd time, and could not.

    The Bucs weren't even in the red zone after that call. A good defense, something I take it the Bengals lack, regroups and keeps a bad offense like Tampa Bay's out of the end zone.
    I don't think anybody is arguing that the Bengals have a good defense. I think is pretty much commonly accepted that they do not. However, that doesn't automatically make them a bad team and undeserving of a playoff spot.

    IMO it doesn't hurt the Bengals all that much this season, but it hurts them for the future by the fact that they have a roster full of players with one less year of playoff experience.

    GL

  8. #22
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    The Bengals defense shoulders a small portion of the reponsibility since they had a chance to win the game a 2nd time, and could not.
    I'd say that's the larger portion of the responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong
    I don't think anybody is arguing that the Bengals have a good defense. I think is pretty much commonly accepted that they do not. However, that doesn't automatically make them a bad team and undeserving of a playoff spot.
    True enough. What it really makes them is a flawed team that's on the playoff cusp. I noticed the Jets are 5-3 in close games. Indianapolis is 7-3. Denver is 3-2. If you want to make it to the playoffs, you've got to close out games, sometimes you've even got to close them out twice (or even thrice) if the officials botch a call.

    I'll take it a step farther. If the playoff door opens for the Bengals this weekend, it's entirely possible they'll have to close out a close game to earn entrance into the next round. Football's a real "What have I done for me lately?" kind of sport.

    For teams like the Bengals, football games and football seasons often come down to a few defining moments. It sounds like the defining moment for the Bengals is that they couldn't stop a bad offense twice. They shouldn't have had to do it, but they needed to all the same.
    Last edited by M2; 12-29-2006 at 01:49 PM.
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  9. #23
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    I've been a Bucs fan for my entire life -- and closely followed the team since I was 10. I've got 15 years of Bucs football under my belt, and I feel confident in saying that this is one of the worst offenses I've ever seen them field.

    I said it at the time, and I'll say it again -- the Bengals couldn't keep the Buccaneers out of the end zone on that last drive and they have absolutely no one to blame but themselves. Hell, they were even gifted a tripping penalty at the end of that drive that should've put Tampa out for the count.

    It was an awful call, but it should've taken 10 awful calls to give Tampa enough to win that game.
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  10. #24
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    True, but good ones do it all the same.
    Are there stats for this? Is there a stat where it shows that good teams overcome game changing lousy calls with under 2 minutes left?

    If you are making a case that only good teams overcome bad calls with under 2 minutes to play deep in their own territory, then I'd love to see the stats that support this.

    I looked it up, the Bengals are 2-5 in games decided by seven points or less. The New England Patriots are 5-2. Contenders win those games. Pretenders lose them. I think you'll find that's a pretty consistent dividing line between the better and lesser teams in the league and you can be sure many of those better teams faced their share of bad calls along the way. They just happen to turn those calls into moot points.
    I can't make sense of this analogy. Winning or losing a game by less than 7 points has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

    How many of those games does New England win if you give the team they are facing an extra set of downs deep in their own territory?

    And how many calls like that did New England truly overcome? Where are all the examples of great champions overcoming calls that bad late in a game?

    I guess New England is so good they could just overcome those calls play after play. That happens to them all the time.

    No, the referee blew a call and two-plus minutes later the Bengals lost the game. I'd have some sympathy if this was a situation where a field goal decided a game and the ref's call put the other team into easy field goal territory, but it isn't.
    Yes, the referee blew the call that would have given the Bengals possession and all they had to do was run out the clock.

    Maybe the Bengals should just give all the teams they play an extra set of downs to score a touchdown in that situation and if they are truly great, they'll win them all.

    Great teams do that all the time.

  11. #25
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath View Post
    If I'm Mike Brown I might seriously consider making a coaching change. He gave control of the franchise to Marvin Lewis and now they have a team full of undisciplined players who are constantly screwing up off the field. If you can't make good decisions off the field how can you make good ones on the field? If a game being won or lost hinges on the outcome of one play then maybe, just maybe you didn't play well enough to win.
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  12. #26
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Are there stats for this? Is there a stat where it shows that good teams overcome game changing lousy calls with under 2 minutes left?

    If you are making a case that only good teams overcome bad calls with under 2 minutes to play deep in their own territory, then I'd love to see the stats that support this.
    You've watched the Bengals for too long. Hey, bad teams could stop a bad offense from marching 25 yards to the end zone at the end of a game too (especially with a tripping penalty against the offense thrown into the mix). Feel free to compile the stats yourself, but I don't think I'm out on much of a limb noting that good teams tend to win the preponderance of close games they get into, something that naturally includes stopping the other team late in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner
    I can't make sense of this analogy. Winning or losing a game by less than 7 points has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

    How many of those games does New England win if you give the team they are facing an extra set of downs deep in their own territory?
    It wasn't an analogy. Losing or winning by 7 means that each time the team that's behind gets the ball, it's a touchdown away from taking the lead or tying up the contest. It means that it's a close game and your defense will need to make sure that slim lead doesn't evaporate.

    I ran this scenario by a Pats fan friend of mine. His answer was that it would be unthinkable that the Pats would surrender a touchdown to Tampa Bay in that situation. Literally his answer was that it was the kind of thing the Patriots used to allow all the time before the club's recent six-year run and that if it happened now, people would be mortified, like being visited by the ghost of ineptitude past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner
    And how many calls like that did New England truly overcome? Where are all the examples of great champions overcoming calls that bad late in a game?

    I guess New England is so good they could just overcome those calls play after play. That happens to them all the time.
    No idea about the Pats in specific, I don't follow them. Frankly, it's not the kind of thing anyone bothers to remember unless the team goes on to blow the game after the call. Fans of teams that manage to close out games don't sweat bad calls. I know I didn't when I was a Redskins back in their heyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner
    Yes, the referee blew the call that would have given the Bengals possession and all they had to do was run out the clock.
    And all they had to do was stop a bad offense from going 1/4 of the field even with the call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner
    Maybe the Bengals should just give all the teams they play an extra set of downs to score a touchdown in that situation and if they are truly great, they'll win them all.

    Great teams do that all the time.
    Maybe the Bengals should be a better team and then a call that didn't put points on the scoreboard or the opposition on the doorstep of the end zone wouldn't have them on the verge of watching the playoffs from home.

    Though, just to twist the knife in a bit, aren't the two biggest games in Bengals history famous for the 49ers first stopping the Bengals on the doorstep of the end zone and then for the Bengals not being able to stop the 49ers to secure a Super Bowl win? As such, I can see why the concept of what it takes to close out a game might elude you.
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  13. #27
    Plays The Right Way Hap's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    Maybe we'll get some make up calls in the Chiefs-Jags and the Broncos-49ers and the Jets-Raiders games to give us a slim chance.
    .

  14. #28
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    I ran this scenario by a Pats fan friend of mine. His answer was that it would be unthinkable that the Pats would surrender a touchdown to Tampa Bay in that situation. Literally his answer was that it was the kind of thing the Patriots used to allow all the time before the club's recent six-year run and that if it happened now, people would be mortified, like being visited by the ghost of ineptitude past.
    I guess your friend would be fine, then, with giving the other team 5 and 6 downs instead of 4 to get in the end zone, since New England overcomes everything. Since they are a "great team" they can overcome everything, including rule changes.

    You keep saying the Bengals should have stopped the Bucs, and well, they did.

    I didn't realize you were now required to do it more than once, or you aren't a good football team.

    Though, just to twist the knife in a bit, aren't the two biggest games in Bengals history famous for the 49ers first stopping the Bengals on the doorstep of the end zone and then for the Bengals not being able to stop the 49ers to secure a Super Bowl win? As such, I can see why the concept of what it takes to close out a game might elude you.
    See- the Bengals never stopped the 49ers. They did stop the Bucs, though.

    And here we go with those historical stats: These Bengals have absolutely nothing to do with the Bengals of the 1980s. They don't even have the same uniforms. It's a random assortment of players, none who have any affiliation with the other teams of the past. I guess the Bengals are going to lose this weekend for the sole reason they historically suck, rather than just sucking now.

    Maybe the Bengals should be a better team and then a call that didn't put points on the scoreboard or the opposition on the doorstep of the end zone wouldn't have them on the verge of watching the playoffs from home.
    The Bengals were the better team that day, they got screwed by a bad call.

    They put themselves in a position to win by sacking the quarterback and causing the fumble. Is that not good enough? Tell us, M2, how many times do you have to win a game to win it? I thought the Bengals were playing the Buccaneers and not the little nerds with the black and white uniforms?

    What's funny is that you keep bringing up the Patriots who are notoriously on the winning end of controversial calls, like in their victory over Jacksonville this year:

    http://www.provencehome.org/refsuck/...ualawards.html

    With under two minutes remaining and the Pats leading 24-21, Jacksonville QB David Garrard is hit while scrambling. The ball rolled forward and was recovered by the Patriots. The play was reviewed automatically by officials, who upheld the original call of fumble despite the fact that replay clearly shows Garrards arm was coming forward as he was hit. According to the NFL rulebook "When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement forward of his hand starts a forward pass. If a Team B player contacts the passer or the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer's hand, a forward pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player."

    What a great team. I guess when you had an extra player (the officials) all is possible. Those Jaguars stink, I tell ya, and New England is awesome.

    Or how about this gem:

    New England vs. Indianapolis

    With the Colts up 17-14 and the Pats driving late in the first half, Patriot QB Tom Brady was stuffed on a 4th and 1 quarterback sneak near mid-field. Despite the fact that the live broadcast and television replay clearly showed Brady short of the first down, officials rushed in to signal first down without even a measurement. How it is even remotely possible the officials could give Brady a first down without measuring is incomprehensible. Even better, despite an official replay, the original call stood. "Astonishing", exclaimed announcer Al Michaels.

    Or maybe here:

    New England vs. Minnesota

    Far too often, officials refuse to admit a mistake despite clear cut, irrefutable visual evidence. For example, Patriots leading 24-7 midway thru the 3rd quarter, the Vikings are driving. Minnesota QB Brad Johnson connects with Tight End Jermaine Wiggins for a first down inside the Patriot 35-yard line. On the catch, Wiggins has full posession, takes three full steps, and turns to head downfield. As Wiggins is going down, the ball is stripped by the defense and rolls out of bounds. The correct call SHOULD have been first down at the spot where the ball rolled out of bounds. However, in the fantasy land where some NFL officials reside, the pass is ruled incomplete. Minnesota challenges, yet Referee Larry Nemmers upholds the original call. Minnesota's 4th down pass falls incomplete, and for all intents and purposes, the game is over.

    I don't know, bro. To hear a New England fan call the Patriots great when they are more often than not the beneficiary of questionable officiating falls on deaf ears.

    All those teams who got screwed should have played better, I guess.

  15. #29
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    You keep saying the Bengals should have stopped the Bucs, and well, they did.

    I didn't realize you were now required to do it more than once, or you aren't a good football team.
    No offense, but this line of thinking is just idiotic.

    The NFL is riddled with situations where a team on defnese dose *everything* right, and still gets screwed by some happening. It can be the officials making a bad call, as was the case in Tampa. It can some divine-intervention play by the offense where the ball is batted down by the DB, is tipped by the wideout, and ends up being caught by the tight end for a first down. Or it can be the officials making the RIGHT call that is seldom quoted, but screws you -- such as when the "tuck" rule was invoked and the Raiders got the shaft in the playoffs.

    You can curse at the officials, god, or the rulebook -- but the end result is always the same: you've got to pick yourself up and go back to work. Good teams do have to make stops over and over again. That's what makes them good teams -- the consistency to be able to overcome situations like that. Mediocre teams will pitch 4 good downs and then get burned on the next 4 when something flukey happens to give their opponent a second chance.

    And, unfortunately, I think you're getting wrapped up with the trees here -- why in the hell were the Bengals even in a situation against the Bucs where one bad call could beat them? They should've run that team out of the stadium and won walking away.
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  16. #30
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: According to FOX Sports, the worst call in the NFL this season was...

    No offense, but this line of thinking is just idiotic.
    Yeah, your blame the victim defense is so intellectually superior to my silly assertions. I blame the official - who the league apologized for- and you blame the Bengals.

    It's all the Bengal's fault. Rape victims shouldn't wear short dresses, poor people should work harder, we should all be prepared for the unforeseen.

    Right. It's our fault, not the guy whose fault it was.

    I guess if the Bengals were down by two, kicked a clearly good field goal and the referee called it no good, then the Bengals shouldn't have been in that position anyway. They should have been ahead in the first place.

    Your line of thinking is awe inspiring to my idiotic reasoning.

    I would agree with you if the call was not a game ending one, but it was.
    Last edited by Dom Heffner; 12-30-2006 at 03:17 PM.


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