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Thread: Organizational Pitching Depth

  1. #16
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    What about the Rule 5 kid from Oakland? We assuming he doesn't stick?

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  3. #17
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Majewski was omitted.

    Unless a reliever gets cut, Salmon presumably begins at AAA and gets an early call up when needed.

    I seem to remember that Gruler cut short his 2006. Don't know if he is active any more.
    With Salmon in AAA, I'm guessing one of the AA guys will stay in AA to close. Medlock? That would probably make Watson closer at A+. It makes more sense that way anyway IMO. I'll update the table later.

  4. #18
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyenut View Post
    What about the Rule 5 kid from Oakland? We assuming he doesn't stick?
    No room. Wk really wasted money on Weathers and Stanton and pushed these guys off the roster.

  5. #19
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    No room. Wk really wasted money on Weathers and Stanton and pushed these guys off the roster.
    You'd rather have a Rule 5 guy than Weathers/Stanton? Not me. Rule 5 guys are long-shots and are kept only when there is roster spot to waste.

    The Reds will likely use that extra spot for Josh Hamilton.

    I don't know why Krivsky took a Rule 5 pitcher unless he plans a trade so he can own the guy outright and keep him in the minors.

    I'm sure several of the Reds' AAA relievers will get chances this year. Remember last year when the Reds had numerous relievers pitch at one time or another. All teams get bullpen injuries, some guys will not pan out, there will be plenty of opportunities.

    But in the late innings, I'd rather have Weathers or Stanton.

  6. #20
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Nice lists.

    I think they keep Watson as a starter for now, probably at Dayton. He's got a good mix of pitches and a durable frame -- they may see him as a guy with a relatively fresh arm who can use innings to refine command of a starter's repertoire.

    Apparently Lutz was impressive in instructional league. I wouldn't be surprised if he's closing games in Sarasota.

    I also would not be surprised if Avery were back in high A looking to gain some consistency. He still would not be old for that league.

    A question -- has anyone read anything about Valiquette? His extended absence makes me think he's a longshot to be in a rotation anywhere.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  7. #21
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    You'd rather have a Rule 5 guy than Weathers/Stanton? Not me. Rule 5 guys are long-shots and are kept only when there is roster spot to waste.

    The Reds will likely use that extra spot for Josh Hamilton.

    I don't know why Krivsky took a Rule 5 pitcher unless he plans a trade so he can own the guy outright and keep him in the minors.

    I'm sure several of the Reds' AAA relievers will get chances this year. Remember last year when the Reds had numerous relievers pitch at one time or another. All teams get bullpen injuries, some guys will not pan out, there will be plenty of opportunities.

    But in the late innings, I'd rather have Weathers or Stanton.
    I guess with all the candidates to round out the 12th spot (Burton, Shack, Salmon, Coutlangus, even Shearn, or Kelly), I'd rather have Octavio Dotel to close and one of those guys at the bottom of the staff. Better composition of the team than spendng the same $ on Weathers and Stanton.

    Signing Stanton could still be ok if Cormier is dumped to recoup the $ and roster spot (Stanton is a slight upgrade from Cormier). Signing Weathers was a big waste IMO. I'd rather have Salmon.

  8. #22
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Not to try to change the subject of this thread but I can't believe people bemoan not getting Octavio Dotel. He can throw hard, I'll give you that. But I saw a lot of his relief apperances last year, and he was horrific. He could barely throw strikes and was basically Weathers and Majewski during their bad periods combined but worse. Come Opening Day if we have a one run lead in the 9th I'd send Weathers or Stanton out for the save every day of the week over Dotel.

  9. #23
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Not to try to change the subject of this thread but I can't believe people bemoan not getting Octavio Dotel. He can throw hard, I'll give you that. But I saw a lot of his relief apperances last year, and he was horrific. He could barely throw strikes and was basically Weathers and Majewski during their bad periods combined but worse. Come Opening Day if we have a one run lead in the 9th I'd send Weathers or Stanton out for the save every day of the week over Dotel.
    Actually my first choice would have been to not sign any relief pitchers, dump Lohse and pool all that money and get a good number 3 starter. even if it means trading a Wood and Freel and taking on a contract to do it.

    But Dotel was in the first year back from surgery. There are always kinks then. Many pitchers come all the way back in year 2. If so, Dotel would be much preferred over a "BABIP lucky probably not to be repeated" Weathers or an "aging not much different from Bray or Cormier" Stanton. Dotel (or something he is traded for) could actually be an asset when the team is ready to be good again.

  10. #24
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I think they keep Watson as a starter for now, probably at Dayton. He's got a good mix of pitches and a durable frame -- they may see him as a guy with a relatively fresh arm who can use innings to refine command of a starter's repertoire.
    Apparently Lutz was impressive in instructional league. I wouldn't be surprised if he's closing games in Sarasota.
    I also would not be surprised if Avery were back in high A looking to gain some consistency. He still would not be old for that league.
    A question -- has anyone read anything about Valiquette? His extended absence makes me think he's a longshot to be in a rotation anywhere.
    good points.
    I think Watson is perceived as a ML reliever prospect - which raises the question how do you handle his development? Do you let him start games - and if so, for 3 innings with a strict pitch count, or do you allow him more flexibility. I would let him get acclimated in A ball by pitching him every few days (2-3) in the innings between the starters (they usually only go 5-6 innings at the beginning of the year) and the closer.

    That's good news on Lutz - along with Watson and Arneson, we have some
    hope for relief from the 2006 draft.
    I am still holding on to the hope that Terrell Young will harness his power stuff in a relief role - I see him starting in Dayton for 2007. I am less hopeful for Valiquette - the Reds really mis-handled his development in my opinion. Starting his minor league career in Dayton, when his breaking pitch was so rough, did not make sense to me.

  11. #25
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Terrell Young closed at Billings and did well. Got hit around in short stint at Dayton.

    Should definitely be listed for the Dayton bullpen.

  12. #26
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Terrell Young closed at Billings and did well. Got hit around in short stint at Dayton.

    Should definitely be listed for the Dayton bullpen.
    Thanks. I'll add him.

  13. #27
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Gruler was shut down in August after a setback with his shoulder, no further news on his condition or what the setback was. Gardener was shut down so he would be ready for the instuctional league. I believe his mom posts on here from time to time so I hope that he is doing well.

  14. #28
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Gruler was shut down in August after a setback with his shoulder, no further news on his condition or what the setback was. Gardener was shut down so he would be ready for the instuctional league. I believe his mom posts on here from time to time so I hope that he is doing well.
    .

    Thanks. They are both long, long shots. I know Gardner had a torn labrum. Gruler had tears in his rotator cuff and labrum (same injury as Mark Mulder for reference). I saw they both put up some stats last year so I stuck them on the list.

  15. #29
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Apparently Lutz was impressive in instructional league. I wouldn't be surprised if he's closing games in Sarasota.



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  16. #30
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    Re: Organizational Pitching Depth

    Updated chart based on comments so far. Still a lot of uncertainty obviously.

    Code:
    Spot #	Majors	        AAA	        AA	        A+	        A-
    1	Aaron Harang	Homer Bailey	Johnny Cueto	Travis Wood	Josh Ravin
    2	Bronson Arroyo	Tom Shearn	Sam Lecure	Carlos Fisher	Jordan Smith
    3	Kyle Lohse	Phil Dumatrait	Camilo Vazquez	Phil Valiquette	Daniel Guerrero/Jamie Arneson
    4	Eric Milton	Bob Livingston	James Avery	Daryl Thompson	Anthony Gressick/Misael Dejesus
    5	Eliz. Ramirez	Tyler Pelland	Eric Junge	Francisco Mateo	Brandon Rice
    6	Matt Belisle	Steve Kelly	Richie Gardner	Chris Gruler	Rafael Gonzalez
    
    
    Pen Spot
    1	Mike Stanton	David Schafer	Calvin Medlock	Sean Watson	Derrick Lutz
    2	David Weathers	Jon Coutlangus	C. Bohorquez	Robert Manual	Brandon Camardese
    3	Todd Coffey	Brad Salmon	Nick Moran	Damien Ursin	Lee Tabor
    4	Bill Bray	Carlos Guevera	James Paduch	R. Haltiwanger	Terrell Young
    5	Rheal Cormier	Wes Wilkerson	Brock Till	Logan Ondrusek
    6	Gary Majewski			Jon George


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