Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Are we really out of trading chips?

  1. #1
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Are we really out of trading chips?

    Are we really out of trading chips because of the trade?

    While the degree of difficulty in putting together a trade has certinally increased post "the trade" I don't think I agree with the oft repeated idea that we suddenly have no trading chips to use whatsoever.

    Freel, Deno, Ross, Javy, Phillips, Hatte, Bray and Majic, IMO represent possible trading chips. As much value as a Kearns, for example, no, but value none the less. While you you have to replace their production, and that makes the available trading pool smaller and more difficult, I don't think other teams would look at these particular players and call them "worthless".

    Dunn, EE, Harrang, Arroyo, Votto, Bruce and Bailey most certinally have trading value. Obviously you tread very, very, very lightly here and absoutley must get the proper return for them, but they are definatley valuable trading chips.

    I hate to type this, but I'd say Jr, and the random cast of charicters in AAA/AA represent a further class of trading chips to be used. I bundled Jr with the minor leaguers only due to his (1) age (2) health (3) contract (4) veto clause.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to mix-and-match some of these players (assuming the corresponding production is replaced/improved) and pull off a trade. Especially with so many teams staying out of the FA market this winter.

    I don't mean this to be yet another rehash of the trade, rather a discussion about the current trading pool available to Krivsky.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 01-08-2007 at 01:21 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,917

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    I don't think we could get any thing we need with the current players we have. We currently won't get a number 3 starter for Deno or Hatte.
    Most Vottomatic Player

  4. #3
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,226

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    Very good question and a nice way of hopefully sparking a good conversation. I've said for a while that I thought a number of players could be on the market. It's doubtful any of our players by themselves would bring what we need, but some combination could be put together without raiding the cookie jar.

    I think one or the other of Freel/Deno could be part of a trade. I still think Cormier will go before spring is over and I believe that is why the Reds agreed to buy his option (I think that was how it went), eliminating his 10/5 rights. And even though WK talks about carrying three catchers again, I would not be surprised to see one of our catching corps go.

    Until Milton's recovery from surgery is known, I would think he won't go, but then again, who knows in this whacky market. Probably he stays until he shows he's healthy (which could mean he plays out his contract here).

    Any number of other assorted players could made available. The Rule 5 pitcher from the A's could be traded with the acquiring team taking on the requirement to hold him on their roster for the year. Same could happen with Hamilton too.

    I think you're right that we still have some chips.

  5. #4
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Amarillo, TX
    Posts
    13,750

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    Quote Originally Posted by degenerate10 View Post
    I don't think we could get any thing we need with the current players we have. We currently won't get a number 3 starter for Deno or Hatte.
    No, but you could get a #2 for Votto and Cueto.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  6. #5
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,821

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    Sure, there are players the Reds could trade for a decent return, but most of them would leave bigger holes in the current roster.

    Quite a few players on the roster have virtually no trade value at this point (Majewski, the ancient bullpenners, Milton). Some players would bring a good return (Harang, Arroyo, Dunn), but their absence would leave major holes in the 2007 roster -- more than a trade could fill.

    It would be downright silly to trade guys like Phillips, Ross, Denorfia, and Encarnacion at this point -- they are productive, cheap, and under the Reds' control for several more seasons.

    The Reds are in no position to be trading their best minor leaguers right now. They will need as much cheap talent as they can get in 2009.

    Freel is the Reds' main chip at this point -- he's got talent but Denorfia makes him expendable, plus he only has one year left on his current deal.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  7. #6
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    19,111

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    No, but you could get a #2 for Votto and Cueto.
    IMHO, there is no way.....

  8. #7
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,145

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    I think we have a number of chits to trade but as Johnny points out, we lack depth. Any trade of a player who could be significant return leaves a hole elsewhere. I like Freel's style of play, but he's no longer the best defender (Deno) and his speed has proven to be break-even in terms of real value. I would like to see him dealt while he's still got all his value and before he hurts himself again.

    If we're out of the race and somebody is willing to throw us a virtually ready (ready in 2008) top SP prospect and a solid RF prospect for Arroyo (and he rejects and extension offer), you'd have to consider it. As has been pointed out elsewhere, this team needs more talent on the major league level and simply hoping a bunch of prospects pan out probably isn't a smart idea.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,213

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    No, but you could get a #2 for Votto and Cueto.
    Who's looking to trade a #2 starter for a 1B prospect and a pitcher who's never been out of A ball?
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  10. #9
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    19,111

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    I really think any discussion of Reds trading chips should have some reference point concerning return....

    I'd suggest this: Dunn would not bring an established #2 starter right now. It's doubtful he would even bring a hot prospect arm like Miller, Lincecum or Morrow that could likely already help the bullpen in '07 let alone someone like Bailey who some think will be inserted into the rotation next season. Adjust the perceived trade value of everyone else accordingly....

  11. #10
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    8,104

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Who's looking to trade a #2 starter for a 1B prospect and a pitcher who's never been out of A ball?
    True. It took more than that to land Brandon McCarthy.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  12. #11
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    No but most teams seem to be overvaluing their own talent. Most of the deals still seem to be about moving contracts more than anything else.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  13. #12
    Member PickOff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    1,338

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    Most of the deals still seem to be about moving contracts more than anything else.
    Definitely true. "Baseball" trades for starting players are rare, (Wily Mo and Arroyo come to mind) because most teams don't have the surplus situation that precipitated that trade. It is about dumping and repositioning mainly.

    That said, the Reds have plenty of chits, but would most likely have to be willing to give up prospects and take on more payroll. If the Reds deal any of the position players or a Harnang or Arroyo, they would still have to take on more payroll to make the trade worth it.

    Bottom line, if you think the Reds will take on more payroll, they have the players, if you don't then, no, they don't have any surplus to make a decent trade.
    Thank goodness for baseball.

  14. #13
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Amarillo, TX
    Posts
    13,750

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    True. It took more than that to land Brandon McCarthy.
    And less to land Scott Kazmir. And yes, Victor Zambrano is less than 2 of the Reds top 10 prospects.

    There is always somebody willing to take a flyer on youth. JimBo traded Rob Bell for essentially 2 minor leaguers, though Mateo had some big league experience, it barely totaled a whole season. And he was coming off a major injury to his leg.
    Last edited by TRF; 01-08-2007 at 04:47 PM.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    1,362

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    I remember listening to one of ESPN's baseball hotshots on the radio last year and he was talking about how hard it was to get good relief pitching. It might explain the Reds acquiring so many.

  16. #15
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Portland, Or
    Posts
    5,041

    Re: Are we really out of trading chips?

    No. (in answer to "Are we out of trading chips?
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25