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Thread: Santos?

  1. #1
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    Santos?

    Just curious, what does everyone believe the chances are of Victor making the roster and becoming the 5th starter?

    I would hope he's only injury protection and headed to AAA. Have to believe Belisle or Ramirez will earn the spot. But it's a good signing to have some experience waiting in the wings. Santos, as I recall, is capable of pitching some good games.

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  3. #2
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    If he can make our roster, we're worse off than I thought.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  4. #3
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    He'd have to be lights out considering he didn't fair to well with Pittsburg last year. His numbers from last year arn't anything to write home about either:

    5-9 5.70 (25 games/19 starts) 3 SV 115.1 innings 73 Runs 16 HR (1.25 HR/9) 81 K (6.32 K/9) 42 BB (3.28 BB/9)

    This just from Marc:

    The name that jumped out at me from the non-roster invitees was Victor Santos. The guy has spent almost all of the last three seasons in the majors, mostly as a starter. Sounds like he'll definitely get a look for the fifth spot in the rotation.

    "He’s a versatile guy that can start and relieve," said Wayne Krivsky. "He’s going to come to camp and, at least at the outset, compete for a starting spot. That’s what he was signed to do. We’ll see how it goes, but a guy like him could make the team either as a starter or in the bullpen – it just depends on how things shake out."


    The other unfamiliar pitcher, Kershner, also might be in the running. He's mostly been a reliever lately but has been starting in Puerto Rico and pitching well.

    Also, Krivsky said the Reds are still in negotiations with the agents for Paul Wilson, Eddie Guardado and Kent Mercker. They'll get minor league contracts if they decide to stay on.

    One more thing: Someone wondered in the comments why Joey Votto wasn't on the list: He's on the 40-man roster, and everyone on the 40-man is invited to camp.

  5. #4
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    Negotiating for three guys who are coming off of serious injuries? I hope the negotiations aren't that at all...more like non-roster invitations.

    And Wayne...you have acquired a multitude of relievers. If the BP is still questionable enough that you have to go after pitchers pushing 40 and coming off of elbow surgery, then you might as well quit.

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    Re: Santos?

    kershner has less hits than ip's in his career

  7. #6
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsupport View Post
    kershner has less hits than ip's in his career
    2006 AAA:

    33 2/3 innings, 41 hits.

    1.49 WHIP.

    .306 BAA.

    Doesn't sound too promising.

    Is he coming off surgery?

    If so, that would be the lefty TJ hat trick with EG and Mercker.

  8. #7
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    Ryan Franklin Part Deux
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  9. #8
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like Santos has much upside. I know most #5 starters are going to be bad, but why not at least give somebody starts who has a shot at being better. Locking yourself in at #5 starter performance upside just doesn't seem that smart.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #9
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like Santos has much upside. I know most #5 starters are going to be bad, but why not at least give somebody starts who has a shot at being better. Locking yourself in at #5 starter performance upside just doesn't seem that smart.
    Of course, this assumes he makes the roster. Every signing does not mean the players going to make, particularly when we're talking about minor league deals with an invite to spring training. Another piece to look at. If he comes around and can help us, more power to him.

    I think we work ourselves into a dither (and I'm not saying you in particular) over every signing and we have to wait and see what Spring Training results are and what this club's roster is when we break camp.

  11. #10
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    Re: Santos?

    From Baseball think factory, these are the projections for 07. I believe the Santos projection is for Pittsburgh and the Livingston is for Philly.
    Code:
    Name                  Age    ERA    W   L   G  GS   INN    H     ER  HR   BB    K 
    
    Homer Bailey            21   4.50   7   8  27  24   126.0  120   63  15   66  110 
    Matt Belisle            27   4.95   5   6  42  13   109.0  120   60  15   34   73 
    Elizardo Ramirez        24   4.97   6   8  26  23   134.0  156   74  23   29   83 
    Victor Santos           30   5.08   5  10  26  20   124.0  141   70  15   48   76 
    Phil Dumatrait*         25   5.72   6  12  26  25   140.0  156   89  20   69   91 
    Bobby Livingston        24   6.28   6  13  26  24   149.0  185  104  32   46   68
    Assuming they aren't willing to just grant Baily a slot in the rotation, Santos belongs in the competition for the fifth slot as much as anybody else in the organization. While depth might not look great as quality, there is some small value to it.
    Last edited by dfs; 01-09-2007 at 01:41 PM.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  12. #11
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    Re: Santos?

    What happened to Claussen? Did someone else pick him up? If he can prove he's healthy, I would imagine he has just as much of a chance to succeed as Santos, Livingston, EZ, and Belisle.

  13. #12
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    He's most probably insurance, in case, Milty, EZ and Belisle all don't rebound from injury.

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    Re: Santos?

    Back in December Claussen was removed from the 40 man roster, designated for assignment and non-tendered making him a free agent. After the removal, both Krivsky and Narron gave out quotes that pretty much said "too bad, so sad. He's not going to pitch till midseason and was gutless anyway."

    If Claussen does come back, then yeah....he belongs in there as much as anybody, but I think he would be pretty crazy to come back here. He's got Jim Bowden smell all over him and elbow surgery followed by shoulder surgery doesn't sound like a good career track. If anybody has a Brandon update, I'm interested, but if I read the tea leaves correctly that ship has sailed.
    Last edited by dfs; 01-09-2007 at 02:32 PM.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  15. #14
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    Thanks for the projections dfs. What more interests me is the variability around those projections and likelihood of sustainability at a higher level of performance. I'm curious what each of their 90% PECOTAs look like. Who of that group has a chance to be a #3 or #4 starter moving forward? If we can expect them to be relatively the same on average, give me the guy with the highest ceiling. My gut says:

    1. Bailey
    2. Ramirez
    3. Belisle
    4. Dumatrait
    5. Santos
    6. Livingston

    Dumatrait is probably the furthest away right now and a number of those guys have injury histories. I just don't like the idea of a guy whose upside is being a consistent 4.75 ERA guy getting a lot of innings. I like having him around, sure. But I'd rather give the first shots to guys with a better chance of doing more.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #15
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Santos?

    Reds' fifth starter up for grabs
    Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 10:56 am EST

    Unless the Cincinnati Reds add an established starter before pitchers and catchers report in five weeks, the competition for the spot behind Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, Eric Milton and Kyle Lohse figures to be wide open.

    Right-hander Victor Santos, who spent much of last season in the Pirates rotation and the previous two years with the Brewers, will definitely get a look.

    Source: Cincinnati Post
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