Open letter to parents

[Roy Tucker]

You certinally have the right, but you also have the responibility to contol your kid. I'm tired of having my dinners with my family destroyed because some other parent lets their kids yell, scream, bang plates, throw things, climb all over the booths, run around the resturant. Kids should be welcome in most any resturant but they should conform to the adult rules, we shouldn't have to conform to theirs.

I was going to ask you about this. Does this happen very often to you very often? Because for us, by and large, parents do a pretty decent job of controlling their kids appropriately for the restaurant.

Of course, it depends on the restaurant. If we're at a McDonalds or other fast food place, I'm going to expect a certain amout of kid jubilation and running around. Those places are always loud. If we're at an Applebee's or Friday's, I don't mind if a child gets a little excited about their balloon or gets exuberant, but no running around or screaming. And if we're at a restaurant aimed at adult eating, well then, I expect them in their seat and fairly quietly eating. At place like that, children should be seen and not heard.

And for the places we go to, parents do a pretty good job. Sure, every so often you get some idiots who let their kids swing from the rafters, but that is fairly rare. And Roy is not above using the aforementioned skunk eye only this time focusing it on the rabble.

Heck, people on cell phones in restaurants bug me more than kids do.

[Team Clark]

Parenting is and has been the most rewarding experience of my life. My daughter, who is now 5 1/2, listens very well. I've used the countdown a few times but she never makes it past 2. She's one of the more respectful kids that I have ever observed. She's smart and well liked in school, etc, etc... I was raised pretty firm but equally loved. I can agree with a lot of what has been said so far. I do see a lot of children who are clearly in charge of their parents. Kinda sad really.

The real challenge and skill is knowing what works for your kid. I rarely have to "command" my daughter to do anything. Suprisingly she is VERY responsible and already has done or is doing the things I would or have asked. "Already done, Dad" is a common theme from her. My Daguhter, in many circumstances "chooses" to not do something bad. I've watched her with other kids who tried to get her to throw rocks, kick things, curse, etc... she flat out refuses. That is astonishing in my book. Funny thing is she doesn't "cower" to these kids. She tells them its bad and that's why she will not do it. I'm not sure what I did to get her to this point but whatever "it" is I am going to try to keep it up.

[KittyDuran]

And I am sorry folks, but I have the right to take him to any damned restaurant I please.

Boy, will you get into a MAJOR "discussion" with my parents - one of their pet peeves! I was 6 years old when I went to my first restaurant and clearly remembering stopping at my grandparent's and having them keep my little sister (3 years old). My parents are a little more lenient (sp?) now (since it happens at nearly every restaurant they go to) but they still complain about it.

[creek14]

You go SunDeck!! Jello goes fits into molds, not kids.

[dabvu2498]

Heck, people on cell phones in restaurants bug me more than kids do.

Word. Not only in restaurants, but darn near everywhere else on the planet also.

[SunDeck]

I think it's great that you avoid the formal quiet resturants. That's the heart of what I was getting at. Why put kids in situations where they are destined to fail? I wonder about parents who take their 4 to 10 year old kids to even casual resturants at 9:00pm at night, for example. Then they are shocked when the kids are cranky, tired and generally fussy.

Agreed 100%. That's exactly the conclusion that I came to with my boy. His little sister does better than he does in situations that require them to adhere to adult rules of behavior and decorum.

On the other hand, at her age he could draw a train, a car, a house, a ship, you name it, complete with the appropriate scale and perspective. She draws circles with six dots on them and calls them "Daddy".

And this is the point that I wanted to make earlier- it's hard wiring that parents have to figure out. We do the best we can to put both our kids in situations that will work for them, but we have to put them into situations that we know will be difficult, too. Otherwise, they can't learn what "normal" expectations are. That's when we get the nods of dissapproval from busy bodies and know-it-alls who don't see the 99.8% of the rest of this kid's life, and who think the only thing we need to do is to give them a slap, or just "be firm". Trust me, if that's all it took we'd be there and so would a lot of parents.

[Yachtzee]

Agreed 100%. That's exactly the conclusion that I came to with my boy. His little sister does better than he does in situations that require them to adhere to adult rules of behavior and decorum.

On the other hand, at her age he could draw a train, a car, a house, a ship, you name it, complete with the appropriate scale and perspective. She draws circles with six dots on them and calls them "Daddy".

And this is the point that I wanted to make earlier- it's hard wiring that parents have to figure out. We do the best we can to put both our kids in situations that will work for them, but we have to put them into them in situations that we know will be difficult, too. Otherwise, they can't learn what "normal" expectations are. That's when we get the nods of dissapproval from busy bodies and know-it-alls who don't see the 99.8% of the rest of this kid's life, and who think the only thing we need to do is to give them a slap, or just "be firm". Trust me, if that's all it took we'd be there and so would a lot of parents.

Yep, before you become a parent, you have all these preconceived notions about how to properly raise a child. Then you have one yourself and all of those notions go right out the window. My oldest son is 4 and my youngest is 5 months. Even at this early age I can tell that raising #2 is going to be different than #1.

I generally don't get upset when other parents have unruly kids when it appears they are actually engaging their children and making an effort to find out what's going on and modify the bad behavior and encourage the good. So I applaud parents who say "Josephus, please" or "Millicent, please," even if it has little effect.

I just have two pet peeves. The first is that I just can't abide by what I call "free-range day care." If you bring your child out, you should be responsible for keeping an eye on them and making sure they have something to occupy/entertain them while you are out, even if it has to be you yourself. I hate seeing kids running around because they are bored while their parents seem too wrapped up in their own conversations to notice that the waitress almost tripped over their kid and dumped a bowl of hot soup on their head. Also, if you are out with a group of people, those people should not be expected to keep an eye on your kid for you.

My other pet peeve, if it comes to the point where you have to discipline your child, please wait until you get home. There is nothing more uncomfortable that watching some harried parent go off on their kid in the middle of the grocery store.

[M2]

You go SunDeck!! Jello goes fits into molds, not kids.

I'll give that an amen.

I've got two nice, respectful, well-behaved kids and no use for pop parenting prescriptions. We use the three counts and it works. If I ever have to resort to hitting one of them, I'll consider it a complete failure on my part. By the way, their names are Otis and Romy. Having grown up with the most popular name in my generation, I got a little more than sick and tired of paying no attention to when I heard my name called out because it could have been any one of a dozen other guys near me. There's more than a handful of names in the world and no harm in using them.

I'll tell you what I don't see with my kids and their friends (many of whom lack standardized names too):

They don't seek conformity and ostracize anyone who doesn't maintain lockstep with the herd.

They don't get into fights. Seriously, my son's in third grade and pretty much every kid in his class hasn't been in a fight. When I was that age, it was a brawl a month minimum. Some may bemoan that. I think it's kind of nice that their natural reaction to the slightest bit of conflict isn't to throw a fist.

They don't cuss like truck drivers. I did in the first grade. Most of the kids I knew did as well. I'm not saying kids today are angels, but they aren't trying to act like they're 40 either.

They learn more in school and seem to have a better time doing it. Thinking back on my education it often seems like the main goal of my teachers was to make us sit in a desk chair for the longest possible amount of time. They'd throw ditto paper at you and make you do the same mind-numbing tasks all day long for months on end, even long after you had the skills in question down pat.

Yeah, there's some out of control, unpleasant, over-coddled kids out there. There's also a lot of nice ones.

[RollyInRaleigh]

You certinally have the right, but you also have the responibility to contol your kid. I'm tired of having my dinners with my family destroyed because some other parent lets their kids yell, scream, bang plates, throw things, climb all over the booths, run around the resturant. Kids should be welcome in most any resturant but they should conform to the adult rules, we shouldn't have to conform to theirs.

Amen to that. I am astonished at how many parents let their kids run all around a "sit down" restaurant. I was never allowed to do that, and neither is my son. It seems to happen nearly every time we go out. Not running to the bathroom, mind you, but chasing around the tables, rolling on the floor and even coming up to your booth or table and staring at you while you are eating. I'm sorry, folks but I don't think your kids are cute when they do that kind of thing. It is very irresponsible on the part of the parents. My son, who is 9, just rolls his eyes every time it happens. We sometimes think we are part of some sick curse, it happens so often.

Don't get me wrong, I love kids. I have coached them from ages 6-20. I'm currently working with my son's age group, and I am pretty strict in the way I coach. I meet with the parents before the first practice and tell them my coaching style and expectations, and ask if there are any questions. I ask that one parent be present for the first few practices. There are no surprises. Practices are very fast moving and outlined, we have lots of fun, but we show lots of respect. It's a rule, and I don't have many. I basically tell the boys that I expect them to respect everyone on the field, that adults are to be addressed as "Coach, Sir, or Maam, and to treat others as you would want to be treated. I've had a couple of parents ask me how I get their kids to behave for me, and I simply tell them that I let them know where I stand right off the bat and I am very consistent. It's been my experience that kids really do want discipline, and most actually thrive on it. If you are consistent and can offer them something that they really want to learn or are interested in, they will respond. There is always going to be a bad apple or two, and in those instances, I give the child two warnings and the third is a talk with their parents, telling them I am not there to be a baby sitter and that their child's actions are causing the other kids on the team to be shortchanged. It usually is resolved at that point.

No doubt, all kids are different, but I don't think folks can just throw up their hands and use it as an excuse for bad behavior and let the behavior continue.. That is the biggest disservice that a kid can ever be shown. As forgiving as parents can be with their children, the outside world is a completely different story.

[NJReds]

Heck, people on cell phones in restaurants bug me more than kids do.

And smokers...although that's not much of an issue anymore.

But I'd rather eat a sit-down dinner at a day care center then at a place filled with smokers.

[15fan]

My other pet peeve, if it comes to the point where you have to discipline your child, please wait until you get home. There is nothing more uncomfortable that watching some harried parent go off on their kid in the middle of the grocery store.

To play devil's advocate here, I think this depends a lot on the age of the child, as well as the number of kids you're in charge of at the time.

If I'm in the store & my 3 year old is completely out of control, the time to deal with it is right then & there. Dropping what you are doing, leaving the store, putting the kid in the car, driving home, walking in the front door, and then disciplining the kid is too long of a time frame. At that point, the kid has gone through too many other highs and lows and had too many other thoughts come & go. If you're lucky, the kid's mania has run it's course and he or she is calmed down from whatever it was that was the source of the angst.

Similarly, my dad traveled a lot when I was a kid, so my mom spent a lot of time running errands with me and my two younger sisters (15 months and 4 years) in tow. If one of us started acting up when the 4 of us were out, she had to nip it in the bud right then & there. Otherwise the other 2 would have joined in the act & it would have turned into complete chaos in the blink of an eye.

If you have a 7 or 8 year old, then I think it's a little different. Those kids have a much better understanding of the space-time continuum. You can let them know that it's big trouble when you get 'em home, and administer discipline in a much more discreet and appropriate manner.

Finally, the next time you see a harried parent go off on his/her kid and feel uncomfortable, keep in mind that the parent likely feels even more uncomfortable than you do.

[RollyInRaleigh]

And smokers...although that's not much of an issue anymore.

But I'd rather eat a sit-down dinner at a day care center then at a place filled with smokers.

Shouldn't have to choose.

[RollyInRaleigh]

To play devil's advocate here, I think this depends a lot on the age of the child, as well as the number of kids you're in charge of at the time.

If I'm in the store & my 3 year old is completely out of control, the time to deal with it is right then & there. Dropping what you are doing, leaving the store, putting the kid in the car, driving home, walking in the front door, and then disciplining the kid is too long of a time frame. At that point, the kid has gone through too many other highs and lows and had too many other thoughts come & go. If you're lucky, the kid's mania has run it's course and he or she is calmed down from whatever it was that was the source of the angst.

Similarly, my dad traveled a lot when I was a kid, so my mom spent a lot of time running errands with me and my two younger sisters (15 months and 4 years) in tow. If one of us started acting up when the 4 of us were out, she had to nip it in the bud right then & there. Otherwise the other 2 would have joined in the act & it would have turned into complete chaos in the blink of an eye.

If you have a 7 or 8 year old, then I think it's a little different. Those kids have a much better understanding of the space-time continuum. You can let them know that it's big trouble when you get 'em home, and administer discipline in a much more discreet and appropriate manner.

Finally, the next time you see a harried parent go off on his/her kid and feel uncomfortable, keep in mind that the parent likely feels even more uncomfortable than you do.

I remember my mom grabbing my arm and quietly saying, "Son, you and I are going to have words when we get home." I knew what that meant, the bad behavior stopped, and my reward, that was waiting at home would not be at all, pleasant.

[paintmered]

I say pump them full of sugar and caffeine then let them have at it.

[Roy Tucker]

To play devil's advocate here, I think this depends a lot on the age of the child, as well as the number of kids you're in charge of at the time.

If I'm in the store & my 3 year old is completely out of control, the time to deal with it is right then & there. Dropping what you are doing, leaving the store, putting the kid in the car, driving home, walking in the front door, and then disciplining the kid is too long of a time frame. At that point, the kid has gone through too many other highs and lows and had too many other thoughts come & go. If you're lucky, the kid's mania has run it's course and he or she is calmed down from whatever it was that was the source of the angst.

Similarly, my dad traveled a lot when I was a kid, so my mom spent a lot of time running errands with me and my two younger sisters (15 months and 4 years) in tow. If one of us started acting up when the 4 of us were out, she had to nip it in the bud right then & there. Otherwise the other 2 would have joined in the act & it would have turned into complete chaos in the blink of an eye.

If you have a 7 or 8 year old, then I think it's a little different. Those kids have a much better understanding of the space-time continuum. You can let them know that it's big trouble when you get 'em home, and administer discipline in a much more discreet and appropriate manner.

Finally, the next time you see a harried parent go off on his/her kid and feel uncomfortable, keep in mind that the parent likely feels even more uncomfortable than you do.

I agree with the sliding scale of age and immediacy in disciplining a child. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. But I also tried to be as discrete as I could.

If my 3 yr. was getting completely out of control in front of the mac and cheese with people all around at the grocery store, I'd find the nearest unused aisle or little alcove with a modicum of privacy and set them straight.

I didn't want to discipline them directly in front of others but it did need to get taken care of quickly or else the moment was lost.

Actually, when they got a little older, the line "do you want me to yell at you in front of all these people and embarass you or are you going to settle down?" worked pretty well.

Nowadays, my line is "children, quit acting like children". Makes the point, gets a good laugh, and diffuses the situation.