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Thread: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

  1. #31
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    His presence on the club, in any capacity, qualifies as "soul-sucking" at this point. If he makes the big-league mound to toss 74 mph "cheese" at hitters this year, well, that may define low point for me as a fan. Why can't they just move on?

    Edited to add: And, given the extended and unfortunate Joe Mays days last summer, I don't trust WK as far as I can throw him to not foist the decrepit Wilson on the club at some point...
    If WK was so gung-ho to foist Wilson on the fans to throw "cheese" why didn't he do it last year when (1) Wilson got his speed back up to the low-80's and (2) WK was desperatley throwing various options against the wall. If he was willing to try Mays et al, why did he say no to Wilson?

    Why would he say "no thanks" last year but go ahead and make the poorly advised move this year that you don't trust him to avoid?
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 01-16-2007 at 09:32 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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  3. #32
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Why even give it a moment's glance? Why, Redsmetz, should it ever be an option at any point? You call it slim that he sees the mound. I agree, it's slim. But I would prefer it be NONE. As it stands, it is somewhat more than that now. I just don't see why. There is no good reason for this kind of fetish.

    Ltl...same response, because he has made it a possibility by giving him the minor league contract. Remote, but still a possibility. Frankly, it is "soul-sucking", redsmetz, because this kind of thing is NOT what winning organizations do...

    Edited to add: I like the Ross signing, though. Like a few others on here, I don't necessarily think his OPS will free fall, and if he can keep it above .800, it's nice having some stability there...
    Last edited by membengal; 01-16-2007 at 09:49 AM.

  4. #33
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Why even give it a moment's glance? Why, Redsmetz, should it ever be an option at any point? You call it slim that he sees the mound. I agree, it's slim. But I would prefer it be NONE. As it stands, it is somewhat more than that now. I just don't see why. There is no good reason for this kind of fetish.

    Ltl...same response, because he has made it a possibility by giving him the minor league contract. Remote, but still a possibility. Frankly, it is "soul-sucking", redsmetz, because this kind of thing is NOT what winning organizations do...
    Why? Because sometimes guys do make it back, signed to minor league deals. Given the current state of pitching in MLB, you look at any available breathing pitcher.

    I know most everyone here at Redszone is convinced that they know more than the Reds management, but just maybe that's not the case. Yes, history is replete with innumerable pitchers who have finally fallen on the ash heap, but every now and then one makes a comeback.

    Wilson isn't going to be holding anybody back contrary to what folks here keep saying. In fact, he's most like still going to be on the DL as the season begins. It's a no lose proposition, regardless of what the naysayers think, IMO.

  5. #34
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    I refuse to be drawn in with straw man "you think you know more than Reds management red herring". I am sure I don't. But I refuse to let the fact that I am not in the front office keep me from discussing what the front office does, or be critical of it, if their actions warrant my criticism. I am also sure that organizations that view themselves as something less than a joke are not fooling around with Paul Wilson and a minor league contract as he recovers from his four billionth arm issue..

  6. #35
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Ltl...same response, because he has made it a possibility by giving him the minor league contract. Remote, but still a possibility. Frankly, it is "soul-sucking", redsmetz, because this kind of thing is NOT what winning organizations do...
    I too am a bit amazed that they continue to tinker with him. I posted elsewhere that I admire Wilsons tenacity but that they should just give it a rest.

    At the same time, I don't see taking a flier on him as tantamount to penciling him in the starting rotation. That means Lizzard, Belisle and Santos all have to be kidnapped for Wilson to jump in the lineup. While I agree that it's highly unlikely he will recover, what if he does and he puts up servacable 5th starter or even bullpen numbers? In todays pitching market that isn't a bad thing is it?

    I do dissagree with the idea that "winning orginazations" don't take fliers on injured pitchers. Maybe they don't beat the same drum into the ground like Wilson, but they do take chances on retreads.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  7. #36
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Wilson must REALLY want to pitch.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  8. #37
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    I posted elsewhere that I admire Wilsons tenacity but that they should just give it a rest.
    Wilson is respected across the board in the Reds organization as a the blueprint for what hard work is all about, he's also just about done. Offering the man a ML contract does nothing more then allow him to leave under his own terms when he fails (and he will)

    This may look like a crap move on the talent level (because it is) but on the team level and the loyalty level it's a statement to the other players that the Reds feel they owe Paul a chance based on his history in the Reds clubhouse, which hasn't been anything but a positive experience on the personal level.

    Fans hate it, players love it and the players are the ones who work under the regime that has to do the firing and hiring and they like it when they're buddies are given a chance.

    As long as it doesn't take their chance away.

  9. #38
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Maybe they don't beat the same drum into the ground like Wilson, but they do take chances on retreads.
    I bolded the part that has annoyed me the most about this. I don't mind taking a chance on a retread. You are right, that does happen plenty. But taking multiple chances on the same retread? I just don't see the point.

    And, yes, a lot would have to go wrong before he would get a shot, but even if it all did go wrong, I just don't see why they would go back down that road...

  10. #39
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Wilson is respected across the board in the Reds organization as a the blueprint for what hard work is all about, he's also just about done. Offering the man a ML contract does nothing more then allow him to leave under his own terms when he fails (and he will)

    This may look like a crap move on the talent level (because it is) but on the team level and the loyalty level it's a statement to the other players that the Reds feel they owe Paul a chance based on his history in the Reds clubhouse, which hasn't been anything but a positive experience on the personal level.

    Fans hate it, players love it and the players are the ones who work under the regime that has to do the firing and hiring and they like it when they're buddies are given a chance.

    As long as it doesn't take their chance away.


    Killer post.

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  11. #40
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Wilson is respected across the board in the Reds organization as a the blueprint for what hard work is all about, he's also just about done. Offering the man a ML contract does nothing more then allow him to leave under his own terms when he fails (and he will)

    This may look like a crap move on the talent level (because it is) but on the team level and the loyalty level it's a statement to the other players that the Reds feel they owe Paul a chance based on his history in the Reds clubhouse, which hasn't been anything but a positive experience on the personal level.

    Fans hate it, players love it and the players are the ones who work under the regime that has to do the firing and hiring and they like it when they're buddies are given a chance.

    As long as it doesn't take their chance away.
    Very nice.

  12. #41
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    So...give Wilson a spot as a roving instructor etc. then. Let the players see hard work rewarded with an afterlife in the organization. But, please, stop the senseless flirtation with a pitching corpse...

  13. #42
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    So...give Wilson a spot as a roving instructor etc. then. Let the players see hard work rewarded with an afterlife in the organization. But, please, stop the senseless flirtation with a pitching corpse...
    Sometimes things play themselves out


  14. #43
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Sometimes things play themselves out


    Jose earned the twelve billion chances he got. Talk about earning a repository of good faith with a fan base and a front office.

    No offense to Paul Wilson, but he ain't Jose...

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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Ross had a .203/.325.484 line after the all-star break. Not saying that's what we should expect, but I think he could very easily fall to the .800 line.
    There were only 5 other catchers in MLB who got 300 at bats and put up an OPS above 800. Lower the AB threshold to 100 and you still only have 12 guys that did that.

    If he does that and the team feels he does well enough in the field, he's not a problem. Certainly not at that salary.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  16. #45
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Jose earned the twelve billion chances he got. Talk about earning a repository of good faith with a fan base and a front office.

    No offense to Paul Wilson, but he ain't Jose...
    Maybe in 1995, by 2001 it was a joke.

    Code:
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
    1995 Reds         30   5   4  .556   14  14   0   0   0   69     76   33   32   22   62   4.17   -1 
    2001 Reds         36   0   0         13   0   0   0   4   17     19    6    4    9   12   2.12    4 
    2002 Reds         37   5   4  .556   31   9   0   0   6   77     89   48   44   20   38   5.14   -6


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