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Thread: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

  1. #46
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    My point was, Jose at his best earned the sad ending. Wilson doesn't have that same reserve to draw on...

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  3. #47
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    My point was, Jose at his best earned the sad ending. Wilson doesn't have that same reserve to draw on...
    Through the lens of the fan yes, but the working organization is the folks that have Mr. Red on their checks and in their eyes Paul Wilson and Jose Rijo are both the same once their arms fall off. That's the teammate aspect of it, we can't touch it, quantify it or understand the implications that it causes whether it happens or not.

  4. #48
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    I'm OK with the Wilson signing from an organizational loyalty viewpoint. I have grave doubts as to whether or not his arm is anywhere near MLB-sound, but Wilson has been a stand-up guy for the team so OK.

    2 caveats though...

    - Make a decision fairly quickly in ST. I'll cease to be OK with this signing if he pitches at his 2006 level and the Reds waste a lot of ST cycles on him.
    - Don't let him hit against Kyle Farnsworth.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  5. #49
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    There were only 5 other catchers in MLB who got 300 at bats and put up an OPS above 800. Lower the AB threshold to 100 and you still only have 12 guys that did that.

    If he does that and the team feels he does well enough in the field, he's not a problem. Certainly not at that salary.
    Exactly.

    Jason LaRue put up an .800 OPS one time only.

    $2-3 million a year is a great bargain for a catcher who can hit.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  6. #50
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Ross had a .203/.325.484 line after the all-star break. Not saying that's what we should expect, but I think he could very easily fall to the .800 line.
    The little cruel Reds fan deep inside me would find that type of batting line a bit hilarious, especially when factoring in Ross' strikeout rates that are just slightly below Adam Dunn's strikeout rates. Not that I think Ross will duplicate those types of extreme power numbers anyway - that's an IsoP higher than Dunn's career average - but I guess it still may be possible. Still, I wouldn't be able to help myself from laughing at the reactions of most Reds fans to a strikeout prone .200 batting average in the lineup two outta three games that's not named Adam Dunn.

    Seriously, David Ross ... give us an .800 OPS next season with a .200 batting average. I can't wait to see the torches and pitchforks crowd beating down the doors of GABP.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 01-16-2007 at 12:17 PM.
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  7. #51
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Maybe in 1995, by 2001 it was a joke.

    Code:
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
    1995 Reds         30   5   4  .556   14  14   0   0   0   69     76   33   32   22   62   4.17   -1 
    2001 Reds         36   0   0         13   0   0   0   4   17     19    6    4    9   12   2.12    4 
    2002 Reds         37   5   4  .556   31   9   0   0   6   77     89   48   44   20   38   5.14   -6
    At 37 years of age, after having an arm attached by sheer will, he was still better than Milton and Ortiz in 2005.

    How monumentally sad is that?
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #52
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Everyone seems to be expecting Ross to fall off this year.

    I don't see it. He's coming into his prime. He got more playing time last year ever and wore down a little in August.

    I think it's a great signing.
    While I don't entirely agree with this (I do expect a dropoff from Ross this year, maybe not as drastic as some expect), I do question Ross as the trade bait that some people have been believing he was. He's a good fit for this park. Not every team would be able to use him as an offensive asset, and nobody's going to be clamoring for his defense.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  9. #53
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    No one seems to give Ross any leeway for the injured foot he was nursing through August and September. Why not? Narron didn't harp on it, but I remember it being mentioned by the beat writers with Marty, and by Ross himself near the end of the season as really impacting his swing.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  10. #54
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    According to the Post blog, Lohse has signed a one-year deal, avoiding arbitration.

  11. #55
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    No one seems to give Ross any leeway for the injured foot he was nursing through August and September. Why not? Narron didn't harp on it, but I remember it being mentioned by the beat writers with Marty, and by Ross himself near the end of the season as really impacting his swing.
    And others don't seem to acknowledge the fact that in over 1500 minor league plate appearances David Ross' OPS was a pedestrian .782. Which coincidently enough is exactly the same as his career major league OPS even after the aberration that was 2006.

    Could David Ross have found himself as a hitter at age 29? Possible, but I wouldn't bet 4.5 million dollars on it.

  12. #56
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    And others don't seem to acknowledge the fact that in over 1500 minor league plate appearances David Ross' OPS was a pedestrian .782. Which coincidently enough is exactly the same as his career major league OPS even after the aberration that was 2006.

    Could David Ross have found himself as a hitter at age 29? Possible, but I wouldn't bet 4.5 million dollars on it.
    If Ross can put up a .782 OPS from the catcher position, it's not such a bad contract.

    However, if he slips below or around .750 and you consider his highly pedestrian defense, it suddenly becomes a far less enticing deal.

  13. #57
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    If Ross can put up a .782 OPS from the catcher position, it's not such a bad contract.

    However, if he slips below or around .750 and you consider his highly pedestrian defense, it suddenly becomes a far less enticing deal.
    You raise an interesting point FCB. What sort of OPS from Ross would people be happy with? .770 and higher? Obviously we want 1.10 for the rest of his life, but realistically, what could he put up and people would be happy?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  14. #58
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    You raise an interesting point FCB. What sort of OPS from Ross would people be happy with? .770 and higher? Obviously we want 1.10 for the rest of his life, but realistically, what could he put up and people would be happy?
    I'd say .775 and above from the catcher's spot is an asset.

  15. #59
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I'd say .775 and above from the catcher's spot is an asset.
    since 2000, 400 PA's to play
    Code:
    NATIONAL LEAGUE
    SEASON
    2000-2006
    C
    AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    OPS                           YEAR     OPS      AB       AGE    
    1    Javier Lopez             2003    1.065      457       32   
    2    Mike Piazza              2000    1.012      482       31   
    3    Brian McCann             2006     .961      442       22   
    4    Mike Piazza              2001     .957      503       32   
    5    Paul Lo Duca             2001     .917      460       29   
    6    Mike Piazza              2002     .903      478       33   
    7    Mitch Meluskey           2000     .888      337       26   
    8    Michael Barrett          2006     .885      375       29   
    9    Jason Kendall            2000     .882      579       26   
    10   Mike Piazza              2006     .843      399       37   
    11   Ivan Rodriguez           2003     .843      511       31   
    12   Johnny Estrada           2004     .828      462       28   
    13   Michael Barrett          2004     .826      456       27   
    14   Mike Lieberthal          2003     .825      508       31   
    15   Michael Barrett          2005     .824      424       28   
    16   Mike Lieberthal          2000     .822      389       28   
    17   Javier Lopez             2000     .822      481       29   
    18   Ramon Hernandez          2004     .818      384       28   
    19   Jason Kendall            2003     .815      587       29   
    20   Jason LaRue              2005     .806      361       31   
    21   Mike Lieberthal          2002     .792      476       30   
    22   Russ Martin              2006     .792      415       23   
    23   Jason Kendall            2004     .789      574       30   
    24   Mike Lieberthal          2004     .783      476       32   
    25   Paul Lo Duca             2006     .783      512       34   
    26   Mike Piazza              2005     .778      398       36   
    27   Charles Johnson          2003     .775      356       31

  16. #60
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Ross signs 2 year deal; Paul Wilson signs minor league deal

    For what it's worth, looking at NL catchers with 400+ PAs last year, .763 was the OPS midpoint of the 10 who met that standard. Looking at the last five years, .750 is about what would be considered typical for a catcher logging the majority of his team's plate appearances. And it probably wouldn't be cheap, either in dollars or trading chips, to acquire one projected to be north of that mark for the next two years. So let's hope Ross maintains at least that level of performance.
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible


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