New pitching coach - New batting coach - what to expect

[redsmetz]

Dsmith421 made this comment on the Ryan Franklin thread

It would, on the other hand, be nice if the Reds had a pitching coach with the reputation of turning around careers like the Cards do.

It got me thinking today about all the talk we're having about pitchers and who are staff is, what more we need. Not to mention what our batting order will be and who will have success and who will stink it up.

So I wondered, what effect will the new pitching coach have (Dick Pole) and the new batting coach (Brook Jacoby) and how might they help folks improve.

[Redsland]

There is probably only a very small number of people who could come into these positions and truly have much impact.

Are these two people in that group?

The odds are against it.

[redsmetz]

There is probably only a very small number of people who could come into these positions and truly have much impact.

Are these two people in that group?

The odds are against it.

But why is that necessarily the case? Of course, I know few are "miracle workers", but presumably we hire professionals who will bring some knowledge and insight to the team.

I honestly don't know enough about either (although I know it's been discussed), but I do wonder what they bring to the table.

[Falls City Beer]

There is probably only a very small number of people who could come into these positions and truly have much impact.

Are these two people in that group?

The odds are against it.

I'd say neither coach has very much to work with.

[Chip R]

But why is that necessarily the case? Of course, I know few are "miracle workers", but presumably we hire professionals who will bring some knowledge and insight to the team.

I honestly don't know enough about either (although I know it's been discussed), but I do wonder what they bring to the table.

I think Redsland is right on. Especially about Pole. He may be a good pitching coach. Maddux said that Pole had a big influence on him. But we don't need a good pitching coach. We need a great pitching coach. After Harang and Arroyo, we have Lohse and Milton. If Dave Duncan were our piching coach I'd guess that he could lower these guys' ERAs a full point and coax them to 12-15 Ws apiece. And that's not even mentioning the #5 spot. We need our first two guys to either pitch the same or improve. The #3 and 4 guys have to show they are not going to be batting tees. Let's say that Arroyo's the #2 guy. Maybe he had a bad outing or he pitches well and gets no support and the Reds lose. Then you are depending on Milton and Lohse to hopefully split. If they don't you've lost 3 in a row and have your 5th starter on the hill. If he gets whacked around that's 4 in a row and now you are hoping Harang can stop the bleeding.

There's only so much Pole can do with the dreck he as been given to work with. If he had better pitchers, he could be a good pitching coach and he wouldn't have to do a lot.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Both coaches will probably have a noticeable impact on a few players. Their approach will sink in and make great sense with a few, and those will benefit. The chances of either really having a positive influence on all the pitchers or all the hitters is very small. I think that Pole might have a better chance of having a significant impact than Jacoby. The pitching coach position was not stable last season.

[redsmetz]

I know on its face Dave Duncan looks like a miracle worker, but there are Cardinal fans who think he's nothing to talk about - my father-in-law hates him worse than he hates Tony LaRussa. Of course, that's just one example. I understand what you're saying, but I think "good" and "great" are shades and I'd like to believe a fresh outlook can help all around. I don't know that it will, but we needed some new approach. I also think Randy is on to something. I'm not sure the pitching coach position was solid last year. I would like to think the bullpen will be helped by Tommy Hume being back out there. His strength seems to be with the relievers. It was logical to pull him in to the pitching coach position, but in retrospect, we might have been better having someone else as interim. That's merely a guess on my part though.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Whatever the case, the entire coaching staff needs to be on the same page. No outlaws.

[Matt700wlw]

At least there will be a chuckle everytime Marty says "Dick Pole"....

[Team Clark]

Two way street. The players have to "listen" and "apply". That is always a wild card. Dick Pole will have a bigger impact than Jacoby IMO.

[gm]

The pitching coach position was not stable last season.

I always get a chuckle when I read opinions like this. All Hummer did was preside over the best Red's starting pitching since '99 (with no advanced warning due to Ruhle's health, I might add) But to hear Red's fans talk about it? Tom was in way over his head and barely kept his bullpen job at season's end.

If Pole can coach the starters as well as Hume has handled the relievers for the past 5+ years, the Red's staff should be more than alright

[Team Clark]

I always get a chuckle when I read opinions like this. All Hummer did was preside over the best Red's starting pitching since '99 (with no advanced warning due to Ruhle's health, I might add) But to hear Red's fans talk about it? Tom was in way over his head and barely kept his bullpen job at season's end.

I wonder that same thing myself. Although the Reds did need someone with a diff't angle and more technically sound, Hummer is a pretty damn good coach. He's the sole survivor of many regimes and that should say a lot. (Mark Berry doesn't count because he was a Bullpen Catcher for 3 or 4 years)

[Redsland]

Dick Pole will have a bigger impact than Jacoby IMO.

I've said from the beginning that Dick Pole is huge.

[RFS62]

Whatever the case, the entire coaching staff needs to be on the same page. No outlaws.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while. I think the Reds and Krivsky are trying to establish a "Reds Way".

The Cardinals have a "Cardinals Way". They teach the same thing up and down their system.

The Dodgers were famous for years with the "Dodgers Way".

And I'd definitely say the Twins take the same approach.

I'd be willing to bet that Krivsky and Castellini want to establish a "Reds Way", probably similar to the Twins model.

[RollyInRaleigh]

I always get a chuckle when I read opinions like this. All Hummer did was preside over the best Red's starting pitching since '99 (with no advanced warning due to Ruhle's health, I might add) But to hear Red's fans talk about it? Tom was in way over his head and barely kept his bullpen job at season's end.

If Pole can coach the starters as well as Hume has handled the relievers for the past 5+ years, the Red's staff should be more than alright

Wasn't saying that Hume doesn't know his stuff or was in over his head. You, sir, put those words out there. I would say that Hume has worked with most of the pitchers on the staff in his tenure, or at least a great majority of them. It was great that he was there and familiar with the staff, but still, who knew when and if Rhule was coming back and what his situation was going to be? Who knew if Krivsky was going to bring someone else in?

Pole is the pitching coach now. Everyone knows it. Situation is stable for the time being.