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Thread: Streetcars in Cincy?

  1. #61
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    The Montgomery Inn. And Skyline

    The Precinct, too, might fall under that category.

    I do believe that La Normandie has closed but I'm not positive. If I recall correctly, there was a very specific reason the Comisars refused to keep the Maisonette going -- ie. people I've heard reference this put the blame squarely on them, not the city -- but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

    The Precinct is another Jeff Ruby place.

    I thought they were going to build a new Maisonette in Montgomery. I saw plans and everything and then all of a sudden, they said they were closing and not moving to Montgomery at all. So who knows?

    I don't know if streetcars are going to revitalize downtown Cincinnati. I don't know if the Banks will do it either and it may be more of a drawback to downtown since it's on the river and that takes people away from downtown. I'm not sure how the new Fountain Square is going to be something that is going to make people want to come downtown. Yeah, it was busy during X-Mas but how has it been doing since then? I think people have to have a reason to go downtown for more than just the Bengals or the Reds or a nice restaurant. All those things are great but you can't rely on them. The Reds are only here 81 times a year and about 10 of them are on Sunday afternoons. Most every Bengals game is on Sunday afternoon. It has to be more than that.
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  3. #62
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland View Post
    Yeah, Nate Comisar was handed a thriving multi-restaurant business with deep ties to the community and hundreds of loyal customers who gladly paid $12 for soup and who fronted him over a quarter of a million dollars just to keep the doors open, yet somehow Nate Comisar couldn't keep the business afloat. He spent three years trying to talk the city into giving him handouts--on the theory that the city gave them to Convergys, and after all, Nate only emplyed about 30,000 fewer people, so what's the problem?--and when that failed, he spent two more years looking for places to move Maisonette and La Normandie to. His solution: take them to Silverton, far away from any hotels or convention centers, and where he couldn't afford the property he wanted and couldn't get building permits approved for the construction he needed.

    The guy was a stone cold idiot.
    Did he inherit the restaurant from his parents or something?
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  4. #63
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo View Post
    You talk about getting people downtown, and then discount when they are brought there. You talk of wanting attractions, and then claim they are "limited use." The idea is to get people down there first, defeat the stigma of "unsafe" and then they feel more comfortable repeating the visit for other "attractions." Soon, they are more and more comfortable just spending time there. However, Cincinnati has a major crime problem, there is no denying it. It should and will be addressed as population and funding increase. The condo development is much greater than a couple on Easter Ave.

    Downtown does desperately need an identity, and the two sports franchises are a good start. Building a neighborhood between the two, where people can go and play before and after, and even more can live and work will only benefit the city. That is why the Banks is so important, I think we agree on that.
    When I talk about having a reason to go downtown I mean a reason that would draw people, and continue to re-draw them to the area. Yes, people came down to ice skate. If they don't ever come downtown again then what good was it, unless you have a constant stream of one-shot sort of activities. The ONLY reason to go downtown is to do something different than what is available 20 minutes down the road....why else would you make the journey and dodge the bullets?

    What downtown needs, IMO, is/are attactions that are different than what can be found in other areas, especially the suburbs. Don't put a department store downtown that is exactly the same as every other mall in the area. Get an IKEA or something out of the ordinary that can't be found locally. Resturants, big stores, different little shops, gathering areas/squares, maybe some tourist spots should be the cornerstone of an effort to attract repeat business. Then you can mix in the "one shot" attractions like festivals, circus, ice skating, etc.

    I don't think one trip downtown to ice skate will undue the stigma of riots and a record setting year for murders in peoples minds.

    Without different attractions that would draw repeat customers and dealing with the crime issues you will never see a significant increase in the amount of people spending money in the downtown general area.
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  5. #64
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Well, IKEAs usually don't go downtown. They're a big box store that likes the suburbs. At least that's my impression from Chicago and Pittsburgh. I think that if you could build up at least a portion of OTR as a bohemian enclave with shops, restaurants, local theater and the like would help. The Banks project should probably be designed around encouraging people coming down for games to come early and leave late. From April to January they have some sport going on down there. I like the idea of making it similar to Eutaw St. in Baltimore, encouraging foot traffic between the stadiums.

    Also, something like an interactive science museum or planeterium might be nice for the families. As interesting as the Underground Railroad museum sounds, it's likely a place I'd go once and be done with it. A cool science museum would probably bring families down again and again. Downtown malls are nice, but only as part of a larger development and not as a destination in and of themselves. Another idea might be to talk to Kings Island to see if they would be interested in building a kind of outlet in a park near downtown. Maybe a rollercoaster and a few other rides to use as advertising for the mothership out in Mason.
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  6. #65
    Porkchop Sandwiches DoogMinAmo's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Well, IKEAs usually don't go downtown. They're a big box store that likes the suburbs. At least that's my impression from Chicago and Pittsburgh. I think that if you could build up at least a portion of OTR as a bohemian enclave with shops, restaurants, local theater and the like would help. The Banks project should probably be designed around encouraging people coming down for games to come early and leave late. From April to January they have some sport going on down there. I like the idea of making it similar to Eutaw St. in Baltimore, encouraging foot traffic between the stadiums.

    Also, something like an interactive science museum or planeterium might be nice for the families. As interesting as the Underground Railroad museum sounds, it's likely a place I'd go once and be done with it. A cool science museum would probably bring families down again and again. Downtown malls are nice, but only as part of a larger development and not as a destination in and of themselves. Another idea might be to talk to Kings Island to see if they would be interested in building a kind of outlet in a park near downtown. Maybe a rollercoaster and a few other rides to use as advertising for the mothership out in Mason.
    Yachtzee, those are all VERY good ideas. I have also thought a COSI type experience would work well downtown, not to mention moving the Cincinnati history museum from Union Terminal to the river, where it belongs. It could be teamed with a steamboat museum.

    Another thing that would seriously help the city is the recreation of a brewery district. Have a street where there are nothing but microbreweries wiht small pubs that patrons can hop to and from and try different tastes. If Cincinnati's heritage is truly German, embrace it. Government subsidize it if necessary.

    It would also be cool if Central Parkway could be partially (maybe just the center median?)turned back into a canal, offering Gondola rides from Music Hall to Main Street, or even better Fountain Square. This along with the horse carriages would lend a romantic flair to the city and could attract tourists.

    Lastly, the streetcars and earlier mentioned inclines would also be a great fit for the renaissance of the city.
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  7. #66
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo View Post
    It would also be cool if Central Parkway could be partially (maybe just the center median?)turned back into a canal, offering Gondola rides from Music Hall to Main Street, or even better Fountain Square. This along with the horse carriages would lend a romantic flair to the city and could attract tourists.
    Refer to another thread somewhere around here -- Central Parkway has that subway tunnel holding it up I don't think much can happen in terms of taking those tunnels out unless they revamp the whole water system.

    The rest are fun ideas, though.
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  8. #67
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    The Precinct is another Jeff Ruby place.

    I thought they were going to build a new Maisonette in Montgomery. I saw plans and everything and then all of a sudden, they said they were closing and not moving to Montgomery at all. So who knows?

    I don't know if streetcars are going to revitalize downtown Cincinnati. I don't know if the Banks will do it either and it may be more of a drawback to downtown since it's on the river and that takes people away from downtown. I'm not sure how the new Fountain Square is going to be something that is going to make people want to come downtown. Yeah, it was busy during X-Mas but how has it been doing since then? I think people have to have a reason to go downtown for more than just the Bengals or the Reds or a nice restaurant. All those things are great but you can't rely on them. The Reds are only here 81 times a year and about 10 of them are on Sunday afternoons. Most every Bengals game is on Sunday afternoon. It has to be more than that.
    I went ice skating on fountain square this past weekend and it was packed. I don't know how busy it was over Christmas so I can't really compare the numbers.

    No doubt 98% of who were there parked in the garage below Fountain Square and drove home upon leaving the square (including me). I think this is the bigger problem that needs to be addressed. The same thing happens for Reds and Bengals games too. There are reasons for people to go downtown, but there are no secondary attractions for people to stay downtown.
    Last edited by paintmered; 01-21-2007 at 09:00 PM.
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  9. #68
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    I think the comparisons to San Francisco COULD be "do-able."

    How awesome would that be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  10. #69
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Did he inherit the restaurant from his parents or something?
    He and his cousin Michael bought out Nate's father six or seven years ago. Nate bought out Michael two or three years after that to become the managing owner. Then he poured gasoliine over everything asked every well-heeled Cincinnatian if he could borrow a thousand dollars and a match.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  11. #70
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Well, IKEAs usually don't go downtown. They're a big box store that likes the suburbs. At least that's my impression from Chicago and Pittsburgh. I think that if you could build up at least a portion of OTR as a bohemian enclave with shops, restaurants, local theater and the like would help. The Banks project should probably be designed around encouraging people coming down for games to come early and leave late. From April to January they have some sport going on down there. I like the idea of making it similar to Eutaw St. in Baltimore, encouraging foot traffic between the stadiums.

    Also, something like an interactive science museum or planeterium might be nice for the families. As interesting as the Underground Railroad museum sounds, it's likely a place I'd go once and be done with it. A cool science museum would probably bring families down again and again. Downtown malls are nice, but only as part of a larger development and not as a destination in and of themselves. Another idea might be to talk to Kings Island to see if they would be interested in building a kind of outlet in a park near downtown. Maybe a rollercoaster and a few other rides to use as advertising for the mothership out in Mason.

    There's an IKEA in South Philly, and not exactly what I would call a model neighborhood.

    If they build a science museum down in The Banks, what happens to Union Terminal?

    I think Cincinnati just has to embrace being at best a 2nd tier city, and work with what it has and strive for bigger and better things. Set more realistic goals. Get the crime under control. Get the City government and the County government to actually work with each other.

    One thing that worked for the redevelopment of downtown Philly was a 10 year Tax abatement. Now THAT'S forward thinking, something that would be lost on SW OH politicians.

  12. #71
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    The Precinct is another Jeff Ruby place.

    I thought they were going to build a new Maisonette in Montgomery. I saw plans and everything and then all of a sudden, they said they were closing and not moving to Montgomery at all. So who knows?
    I know a guy in the the restaurant supply business in town and he said the Maisonette went up the owners nose... that's what happened.

  13. #72
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Portland really revitalized their downtown about 10 years ago.

    Cincinnati could do it too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_D...rtland,_Oregon

    The Pearl District is a former warehouse and light industrial area just north of downtown Portland, Oregon. Its boundaries are W Burnside St., to the south; NW Broadway, to the east; the Burlington Northern Railroad tracks, to the north; and the Interstate 405 Freeway, to the west. The Pearl has undergone significant development since the late 1990s and is now full of high-rise condominiums and warehouse-to-loft conversions.

    In the late 1980s, an elevated highway ramp that ran along NW Lovejoy St. from the Lovejoy bridge past NW 10th Ave. was demolished, opening dozens of surrounding blocks (including some brownfield sites) for development, which peaked in the 2000s. The increasing density has attracted a mix of restaurants, brewpubs, shops, and art galleries, though in some cases pioneering tenants have been priced out of the area.

  14. #73
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Decking over FWW and putting something there that people could actually walk across would be a nice touch, stop letting the downtown area in two.
    Go Gators!

  15. #74
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Portland really revitalized their downtown about 10 years ago.

    Cincinnati could do it too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_D...rtland,_Oregon
    Or concrete yuppie hell, depending on who you ask. $9 martinis, $50 hair salons, $100 workout wear and dog spas abound. It's $250,000 to own a 500 square foot studio apartment (luckily there are a few rent-controlled areas).

    But I suppose it's better than abandoned warehouses. And safer. And more lucrative for somebody. And that streetcar goes right through it, which is cool.

    The thing is this: Portland has a half-dozen other areas you can go to, near downtown and not, for entertainment and the like- and they're all different and attract different crowds.

    That has never really been true in Cincinnati, sad to say.

  16. #75
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Streetcars in Cincy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott View Post
    Or concrete yuppie hell, depending on who you ask. $9 martinis, $50 hair salons, $100 workout wear and dog spas abound. It's $250,000 to own a 500 square foot studio apartment (luckily there are a few rent-controlled areas).

    But I suppose it's better than abandoned warehouses. And safer. And more lucrative for somebody. And that streetcar goes right through it, which is cool.
    Really? I always thought of Portland as granola and patchouli -- and, rather antithetical to granola and patchouli, good music. But in any case certainly a place averse to expensive martinis and workout wear.
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