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Thread: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

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  1. #1
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

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    Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    By DIONISIO SOLDEVILA, Associated Press Writer
    January 17, 2007

    SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic (AP) -- Barry Bonds thinks Mark McGwire and Pete Rose belong in the Hall of Fame.

    The Baseball Writers' Association of America elected Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn to the Hall last week, but denied McGwire. The former slugger ranks seventh on the career list with 583 home runs, but his legacy was tarnished when he stonewalled Congress two years ago amid accusations of steroid use.


    "I congratulate Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn for their induction to the Hall of Fame because they were great ballplayers," Bonds said Wednesday in the Dominican Republic. "But I also think McGwire and Pete Rose should be in Cooperstown."

    The 23.5 percent vote McGwire received represented the first referendum on how history will judge an age when bulked-up players came under suspicion of using performance-enhancing drugs. Baseball didn't ban steroids until after the 2002 season.

    Hall of Fame voters might face a similar decision on Bonds, who is under investigation by a federal grand jury as to whether he perjured himself when he testified in 2003 in the BALCO steroid distribution case that he hadn't knowingly taken any performance-enhancing drugs.

    Rose, meanwhile, was given a lifetime ban from baseball in 1989 for betting on the sport, something he denied for years. The career hits leader with 4,256, Rose has never appeared on the Hall of Fame ballot but received four write-in votes this year.

    Arriving in the Dominican Republic for the Juan Marichal Golf Classic, Bonds told reporters he expects to become baseball's career home run leader this season.

    "I'm sure I'm going to break the record this year," said the San Francisco left fielder, who needs 22 homers to surpass Hank Aaron's mark of 755. "But right now I'm just thinking about golf."

    Bonds declined to discuss ongoing negotiations with the Giants over his contract, or his reported positive test for amphetamines last year.

    Bonds hit .270 with 26 home runs and 77 RBIs for San Francisco last season.
    Most Vottomatic Player

  2. #2
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    You lost me at Bonds:

    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    This is hilarious. Bonds thinks cheating shouldn't keep you out of the hall. I wonder why...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #4
    Member Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Bonds went on to say that he has "no respect for guys like Ripken or Gwynn because they're wusses and could have been better if they let me 'help' them."

  5. #5
    bomarl1969
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Bonds and McGwar (the redneck pronunciation) should not be in the HOF for obvious reasons...Rose gambled...again, SO WHAT? He did not do anything to jeopardize records like Bonds and McGwar did.

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969 View Post
    Bonds and McGwar (the redneck pronunciation) should not be in the HOF for obvious reasons...Rose gambled...again, SO WHAT? He did not do anything to jeopardize records like Bonds and McGwar did.
    you have GOT to be kidding.

    seriously.

    McGwire has never been proven to have taken steroids. He admitted to taking Andro, a substance that was legal both in the U.S. and MLB at the time. His stats speak for themselves.

    All Pete did was break baseball's biggest rule. Then he lied about it for 18 years. And by betting on his team, even to win, he may have cost the reds a playoff spot a time or two. By needing to win a game he bet on, he likely used pitchers when they needed rest when a game was on the line. 4 straight seasons of second place finishes in the 80's. Had they been managed properly, the Reds could have had a near Dynasty from 1985-1990.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #7
    bomarl1969
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    you have GOT to be kidding.

    seriously.

    McGwire has never been proven to have taken steroids. He admitted to taking Andro, a substance that was legal both in the U.S. and MLB at the time. His stats speak for themselves.
    You've GOT to be kidding me...just look at McGwar, you can tell he was on the roids...and he just happened to "retire" at his convenience didn't he?

    Don't start that crap about Rose, you don't save a pitcher for tomorrow, tomorrow it may rain. And its stupid that gambling is baseball's #1 sin. Gambling is great...int he words of Pete what would sports be like without gambling?

  8. #8
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969 View Post
    You've GOT to be kidding me...just look at McGwar, you can tell he was on the roids...and he just happened to "retire" at his convenience didn't he?

    Don't start that crap about Rose, you don't save a pitcher for tomorrow, tomorrow it may rain. And its stupid that gambling is baseball's #1 sin. Gambling is great...int he words of Pete what would sports be like without gambling?
    He retired at age 37. His body was beat up. A lot of guys retire around that age. Do I think he took steroids? yes. Can anyone prove it? No.

    BTW, greenies enhance performance too. I think Pete had his share of greenies. and my share, and your share, and my dog's share...

    As for what sports would be without gambling.. how about honest? fair?

    And yes, when down 3-4 runs in the 8th, you do save your best relievers for tomorrow. It's not that you accept defeat, it's that you accept it's a long damn season. You don't lose tomorrows game because you bet on today's and you are getting your butt handed to you.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  9. #9
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post

    All Pete did was break baseball's biggest rule. Then he lied about it for 18 years. And by betting on his team, even to win, he may have cost the reds a playoff spot a time or two. By needing to win a game he bet on, he likely used pitchers when they needed rest when a game was on the line. 4 straight seasons of second place finishes in the 80's. Had they been managed properly, the Reds could have had a near Dynasty from 1985-1990.
    Actually, Pete's teams were always very close to their Pythag projections -- meaning that they won about as many games as they should have based on runs scored and allowed. They were usually above average on offense and slightly below average on the mound, which is why they usually won between 84 and 89 games. They were nowhere close to being a dynasty team, unless it's a Dynasty of Slightly Above Average.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  10. #10
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Actually, Pete's teams were always very close to their Pythag projections -- meaning that they won about as many games as they should have based on runs scored and allowed. They were usually above average on offense and slightly below average on the mound, which is why they usually won between 84 and 89 games. They were nowhere close to being a dynasty team, unless it's a Dynasty of Slightly Above Average.
    But teams can outperform their pythag. Say that's what happens in 1987 and the Reds win the division. Perhaps in 1988 the get a FA pitcher that again could have put them over the top. Winning attracts those kinds of guys. Then in 1989 no distractions. No media circus. Maybe they finish second again. maybe they win their division. I don't know that Rose cost the reds games, like I don't know McGwire used steroids.

    But I think both happened.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  11. #11
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969 View Post
    Bonds and McGwar (the redneck pronunciation) should not be in the HOF for obvious reasons...Rose gambled...again, SO WHAT? He did not do anything to jeopardize records like Bonds and McGwar did.
    Gambling is worse.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  12. #12
    bomarl1969
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    Gambling is worse.

    you need psychiatric evaluation!

  13. #13
    Member Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969 View Post
    you need psychiatric evaluation!
    I guess I do too.

  14. #14
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    Gambling is worse.
    The use of PEDs affects your performance and potentially skews the games based on what you've done. But it doesn't disrupt the underlying assumption that everybody on the field is doing their best to win the game.

    Gambling erodes the very foundation, the purpose, of the game. Once gambling is involved, playing to win is no longer necessary. People who are taking steroids are simply trying to do better at what they already want to do. Gambling risks a change in the alignment of purpose.

    That's why it's different, and worse. Now yes, you could say that Pete only gambled on games he could not affect or when he did bet on the Reds, it was for them to win. But even then, what if he played a guy nursing an injury because he "needed" to win that particular game -- even though it wasn't in the team's best interest long term? It's a slippery slope that you can't afford to even begin to go down.

    To me, it's not an issue of contrition. I think the HoF should be a museum of history, and thus Pete Rose should be banned from baseball, and in the HoF regardless. But that's neither here nor there.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #15
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    http://www.baseballmusings.com/

    I'm sure that's going to change minds. It's like Michael Myers endorsing Jason Voorhees for the camp counselor hall of fame.


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