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Thread: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

  1. #16
    Member Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969 View Post
    you need psychiatric evaluation!
    I guess I do too.

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  3. #17
    bomarl1969
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Maybe they wouldn't have been a traveling circus freak show in 1989.
    I guess you are quick to forget what happened the year after that circus freak show.

  4. #18
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    Gambling is worse.
    The use of PEDs affects your performance and potentially skews the games based on what you've done. But it doesn't disrupt the underlying assumption that everybody on the field is doing their best to win the game.

    Gambling erodes the very foundation, the purpose, of the game. Once gambling is involved, playing to win is no longer necessary. People who are taking steroids are simply trying to do better at what they already want to do. Gambling risks a change in the alignment of purpose.

    That's why it's different, and worse. Now yes, you could say that Pete only gambled on games he could not affect or when he did bet on the Reds, it was for them to win. But even then, what if he played a guy nursing an injury because he "needed" to win that particular game -- even though it wasn't in the team's best interest long term? It's a slippery slope that you can't afford to even begin to go down.

    To me, it's not an issue of contrition. I think the HoF should be a museum of history, and thus Pete Rose should be banned from baseball, and in the HoF regardless. But that's neither here nor there.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  5. #19
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969 View Post
    I guess you are quick to forget what happened the year after that circus freak show.
    Oh I remember. Lou Piniella led them to a World Series while Pete was sitting in prison.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  6. #20
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Maybe Barry hopes those guys will precede him to the HOF so that he can then say, "Hey, you let Mac and Rose in...why not me too?"
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  7. #21
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    For the first time I ever, I agree with 1 little, itty bitty thing Bonds said....

    Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.

  8. #22
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    For the first time I ever, I agree with 1 little, itty bitty thing Bonds said....

    Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.
    Totally agree. A manager's job is try and win every game. If I had a $250 on a game I would try my best to win that game. Playing a hurt player would not make much since, poor argument. You play to win that night. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Rose put together the 1990 team. He would be wearing another ring if he was managing that team as well.
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  9. #23
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster View Post
    Totally agree. A manager's job is try and win every game. If I had a $250 on a game I would try my best to win that game. Playing a hurt player would not make much since, poor argument. You play to win that night. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Rose put together the 1990 team. He would be wearing another ring if he was managing that team as well.
    Did you that MLB started watching Rose's gambling way back in 1970?

    They had 15 years of questions before started managing for a living.

  10. #24
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    I have no problem with keeping all three out of the hall.

    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

    All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

  11. #25
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster View Post
    Totally agree. A manager's job is try and win every game. If I had a $250 on a game I would try my best to win that game. Playing a hurt player would not make much since, poor argument. You play to win that night. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Rose put together the 1990 team. He would be wearing another ring if he was managing that team as well.
    Look I think Pete belongs in the HOF also, but keep in mind that gambling has zero place in the game even if you are betting on your team to win. If you are a gambling manager you may decide going in to a game that you dont have a real good chance of winning, so thus you dont bet $250 on the game. All during that game however you have in the back of your mind that you need to manage so that the next game that you are betting on, you will have a fresh bullpen or bench so as to allow them to be used the next game when you have the better chance of winning.

    No smart gambler is going to wager on a team to win if he he doesnt think he has a good chance at winning. He is going to pick and choose when he should place his bets and then manage his team accordingly. Having a manager more worried about strategizing how to make money off the game or the next game will ultimately affect the integrity of the game.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  12. #26
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Bonds will be the only one that will get in anytime in the near future IMO. Right or wrong, the writers know that Bonds was a Hall of Famer before he started using. They can't say that about McGwire. They have to justify it somehow.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  13. #27
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    I think all of them should be in the Hall. In my opinion Bonds is in the top five players of all time and has won more mvps than any one else. McGuire was a homerun threat his whole career, and it was never proven that he took steroids. Pete rose did the worst thing in baseball. But i think he has served his time and been banished long enough.

  14. #28
    bomarl1969
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster View Post
    Rose put together the 1990 team. He would be wearing another ring if he was managing that team as well.
    Exactly. Rose should get the credit for the 90 Champs, not Pinella. Pinella was a good manager, but Rose laid the foundation and the team would gel under Pete.

  15. #29
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969 View Post
    Exactly. Rose should get the credit for the 90 Champs, not Pinella. Pinella was a good manager, but Rose laid the foundation and the team would gel under Pete.

    You know what Whitey Herzog said about Pete's managing skills? He said he loved managing against Pete because he couldn't manage a bullpen.

    I always thought that a good comparison to Pete, the late 80's-early 90's Reds and Lou was the Army of the Potomac in the Civil War. I liken Pete to Gen. George McClellen. McClellen was a top notch general. His troops loved him. Everybody had all the confidence in the world that he would rout Gen. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia and win the war. McClellen made those men into soldiers just like Pete made those kids into maor league ballplayers. Only problem was it didn't quite happen the way it was supposed to and eventually Lincoln fired him cause he wouldn't fit unless he was so sure he had the upper hand. McClellen had a little Bob Boone in him too, it seems. Lincoln brought him back in a Steinbrennerish move but eventually fired him again and eventually brought in Ulysses Grant who had done some fine work out west. Thanks to McClellen, the soldiers knew how to fight. They just needed the right guy to lead them. The Reds needed the right guy to lead them too and that was Lou Piniella. Both deserve a lot of credit for that championship.
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  16. #30
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bonds: McGwire and Rose belong in Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    You know what Whitey Herzog said about Pete's managing skills? He said he loved managing against Pete because he couldn't manage a bullpen.

    I always thought that a good comparison to Pete, the late 80's-early 90's Reds and Lou was the Army of the Potomac in the Civil War. I liken Pete to Gen. George McClellen. McClellen was a top notch general. His troops loved him. Everybody had all the confidence in the world that he would rout Gen. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia and win the war. McClellen made those men into soldiers just like Pete made those kids into maor league ballplayers. Only problem was it didn't quite happen the way it was supposed to and eventually Lincoln fired him cause he wouldn't fit unless he was so sure he had the upper hand. McClellen had a little Bob Boone in him too, it seems. Lincoln brought him back in a Steinbrennerish move but eventually fired him again and eventually brought in Ulysses Grant who had done some fine work out west. Thanks to McClellen, the soldiers knew how to fight. They just needed the right guy to lead them. The Reds needed the right guy to lead them too and that was Lou Piniella. Both deserve a lot of credit for that championship.
    Good post with a well explained point. I agree.

    I also learned a little about the Civil War in the process.


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