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Thread: Make it 9

  1. #61
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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  3. #62
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by macro View Post
    I don't think we can look at some of these cases in isolation and say that they should be dismissed from the team. Joseph's is a case in point. But there have been cases in the past year (especially the multiple offenders) with players that should have been kicked off the team and not brought back. When the players see these cases get a slap on the wrist from the coach, they know how much they can get away with and remain on the team. That's what had led to the string of nine. If Lewis had dealt with those first, more serious, situations appropriately, I don't think the other eight would have followed, or at least not most of them. Now that the precedent is set for tolerance, it would be unfair to Joseph to punish him.

    As for Freel, he should have been suspended from the team without pay for some number of games. (The "without pay" part may be forbidden in his contract, I don't know.)
    If Joseph is working hard in practice, studying film and performing on the field, I'm willing to give him a pass on a first offense. Same with the other players. I think the problem is that many fans and the media just see "arrest" and throw all Bengals players into one bag, regardless of the offense. The real concern involves those who are repeat offenders, or whose arrests are merely a sign of a person who has no respect for the law, the team, or themselves. One player is obviously Odell Thurman and the Bengals and the League have taken measures to address his transgressions. Another problem child is Henry, who I can only hope we haven't heard much about lately because he's on a short leash and has made a serious effort to reconfigure his life. If Henry messes up again, I have no problem with the Bengals cutting ties with him, regardless of his talent.

    As for the rest of the guys who have been arrested in the past year, I think the Bengals took a calculated risk in drafting a few guys with issues and they may or may not pan out. I hope that most of these arrests can just be chalked up to people making mistakes. On the one hand, I can agree somewhat with Daugherty on this issue because I feel that some of the arrests are more of a "when it rains, it pours" situation. On the other hand, I like hearing that Carson Palmer doesn't like it and wants change. I think this is an issue best addressed by leadership on the team.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  4. #63
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by macro View Post
    I have a hard time believing that Bengals players are just more naive than the players on other teams, or that there aren't Clermont Counties and Boone Counties near every NFL city. I wouldn't think that that situation would be unique to this area.



    I don't think we can look at some of these cases in isolation and say that they should be dismissed from the team. Joseph's is a case in point. But there have been cases in the past year (especially the multiple offenders) with players that should have been kicked off the team and not brought back. When the players see these cases get a slap on the wrist from the coach, they know how much they can get away with and remain on the team. That's what had led to the string of nine. If Lewis had dealt with those first, more serious, situations appropriately, I don't think the other eight would have followed, or at least not most of them. Now that the precedent is set for tolerance, it would be unfair to Joseph to punish him.

    As for Freel, he should have been suspended from the team without pay for some number of games. (The "without pay" part may be forbidden in his contract, I don't know.)

    The difference comparing this incident to Ryan Freel's is that this was the 9th arrest of a Bengal in a little over a year. How many Reds have been arrested besides Freel? Only other one I can think of is Shackelford. If a Bengal had been arrested a year ago and none others since then, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. It'd be an isolated incident. It's not Joseph's fault 8 other teammates were arrested and what Joseph did was not a big deal. However, Joseph was the 9th Bengal arrested. Doesn't matter what for, he was arrested. And that could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And that is why a lot of people feel he should be made an example of. If 8 Reds had been arrested for one thing or another before Freel had, then you might have had people calling for his release.

    It doesn't matter what kind of a guy Joseph is. This could be the first time he's ever touched weed. He could be a regular church goer and give 10% of his salary to charity and be the best player on the Bengals. But none of that matters when you are the 9th guy to get arrested. The NFL commissioner himself came in and talked to the Bengals and nothing has changed. Marvin himself said he was going to get tough with the next person who did this and nothing changed. If he doesn't get tough he's going to be a laughingstock with the players. He's going to look soft and the media will call him a liar. He's got bigger battles to fight than this but he's got to deal with it now.
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  5. #64
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    The difference comparing this incident to Ryan Freel's is that this was the 9th arrest of a Bengal in a little over a year. How many Reds have been arrested besides Freel? Only other one I can think of is Shackelford. If a Bengal had been arrested a year ago and none others since then, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. It'd be an isolated incident. It's not Joseph's fault 8 other teammates were arrested and what Joseph did was not a big deal. However, Joseph was the 9th Bengal arrested. Doesn't matter what for, he was arrested. And that could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And that is why a lot of people feel he should be made an example of. If 8 Reds had been arrested for one thing or another before Freel had, then you might have had people calling for his release.

    It doesn't matter what kind of a guy Joseph is. This could be the first time he's ever touched weed. He could be a regular church goer and give 10% of his salary to charity and be the best player on the Bengals. But none of that matters when you are the 9th guy to get arrested. The NFL commissioner himself came in and talked to the Bengals and nothing has changed. Marvin himself said he was going to get tough with the next person who did this and nothing changed. If he doesn't get tough he's going to be a laughingstock with the players. He's going to look soft and the media will call him a liar. He's got bigger battles to fight than this but he's got to deal with it now.
    So hypothetically, if Freel, Shackelford, Brandon Phillips, Denorfia, and Encarnacion all run afoul of the law to varying degrees, then after the season is over Homer Bailey gets picked up for a minor misdemeanor, you're going to crack down by releasing Bailey. I don't think so. They can release Thurman because from what it sounds like, he's a lost cause. They could release Henry if he gets in trouble again because he's causing more of a distraction than he's worth (and he takes plays off). But Joseph had a very promising rookie season. You don't unload talent like that, especially when you'll probably need to unload James and O'Neal at some point. Can you suspend him? Sure. But who's going to remember or care next September when the suspension is effective? Really, at this point in the off-season, what can Marvin Lewis do? Take away his PS3?

    Besides, I think when Marvin was talking about being more of a disciplinarian, I think he was specifically referring to issues that went on behind the scenes.
    Last edited by Yachtzee; 01-23-2007 at 08:51 PM.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  6. #65
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    So hypothetically, if Freel, Shackelford, Brandon Phillips, Denorfia, and Encarnacion all run afoul of the law to varying degrees, then after the season is over Homer Bailey gets picked up for a minor misdemeanor, you're going to crack down by releasing Bailey. I don't think so. They can release Thurman because from what it sounds like, he's a lost cause. They could release Henry if he gets in trouble again because he's causing more of a distraction than he's worth (and he takes plays off). But Joseph had a very promising rookie season. You don't unload talent like that, especially when you'll probably need to unload James and O'Neal at some point. Can you suspend him? Sure. But who's going to remember or care next September when the suspension is effective? Really, at this point in the off-season, what can Marvin Lewis do? Take away his PS3?

    Besides, I think when Marvin was talking about being more of a disciplinarian, I think he was specifically referring to issues that went on behind the scenes.

    I'm not advocating a release but in my post I used the phrase "straw that broke the camel's back". That may apply here. Do I think it's a serious offense? No. But it came on top of 8 other arrests. Some of them were serious, others not so serious. But that last one has people throwing up their hands and saying enough is enough. I'm sure it would be easier for the Bengals if this was just some guy on the practice squad who got nailed. Then they could release the guy and people would know that Marvin wasn't just joking around when he said he was going to get tough. (and that is exactly how the media interpreted his statement.) But by doing nothing, the Bengals make it look like that players can do anything they want off the field and as long as they produce on the field, it's OK. I'm sure if all those Reds had been arrested over the span of a year and then Freel gets nailed, there would be calls to release him. But that was an isolated incident so while people weren't happy he did that, not many wanted to get rid of him.
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  7. #66
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    What did you guys think about Carson laying the public smack-down on the shennangans yesterday?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  8. #67
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    What did you guys think about Carson laying the public smack-down on the shennangans yesterday?

    If they don't listen to Marvin, why would they listen to Carson?
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  9. #68
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    If they don't listen to Marvin, why would they listen to Carson?
    At least he's castigating them publicly. I respect that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  10. #69
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Based on the info provided in Roy's link, if I haven't made a mistake, here's the tally:

    Code:
    Bengals		10
    Chargers	 6
    Bears		 5
    Jaguars		 4
    Titans		 4
    Steelers	 2
    10 tied at	 1
    16 tied at	 0
    26 of 32 NFL teams had zero or one total arrests in 2006, so the Bengals had as many arrests as those 26 teams combined.


  11. #70
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    From the Bengals blog from the Enquirer:

    My Enquirer colleague Barrett J. Brunsman reports this morning from Batavia about the ongoing legal saga of talented but troubled Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry. The full story is on the Enquirer's Web site.

    BATAVIA – Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry has avoided a possible drunken-driving conviction that could have resulted in an NFL suspension by pleading guilty to a lesser charge of reckless operation of a car in Clermont County.

    While he was sentenced to the maximum 30 days in jail, that was suspended – meaning Henry can remain free as long as he adheres to conditions outlined Wednesday by

    Judge Anthony W. Brock of Clermont County Municipal Court.

    In addition to keeping a job, Henry must:
    -- Report to a probation officer for two years.
    -- Not consume any alcohol or illegal drugs.
    -- Submit to random drug tests.
    -- Agree to let the court review drug tests on Henry administered by the NFL.
    Continue with substance-abuse and behavior-improvement counseling he began in May.
    -- Stay out of bars.

    A resident of Florence, Henry, 23, said he had just left Déjà Vu – a Union Township club where women are paid to dance nude – when stopped on Interstate 275 by an Ohio State Highway Patrol trooper at 1:18 a.m. June 3, according to a police report.

    Trooper Michael T. Shimko arrested Henry on charges of operating a vehicle under the influence of alcohol and speeding. A trial had been scheduled for Feb. 15.

    A pretrial conference is scheduled for today in Kenton County, where Henry has pleaded not guilty to charges or providing alcohol to three teenage girls in a Covington hotel room in April.

  12. #71
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Looks like Chris had a busy day:

    This is from reporter William Croyle in our Northern Kentucky newsroom:

    COVINGTON - Chris Henry is in Kenton County jail today and will be there until Saturday. The Bengals wide receiver pleaded guilty this morning in Kenton County District Court to permitting possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages, a class B misdemeanor. That was amended down from the three charges he was originally facing of unlawful transaction with a minor in the third degree, class A misdemeanors.

    (Bengals coach Marvin Lewis released this statement today regarding Henry's sentence: "It's good that this case has been resolved. Now Chris must continue to strive to mature and grow both as a player and a person."

    Henry's alcohol-related conviction is expected to bring a mandatory four-game suspension under the NFL's substance abuse policy. Henry's first offense under the policy was pleading guilty in Kenton District Court to marijuana possession, the first polic violation which brought mandatory counseling/treatement. A second violation causes a four-game suspension. The Enquirer is seeking clarification from the NFL office about whether the conviction constitutes a violation because alcohol was involved, even though Henry was not convicted for possibly consuming it.

    The Bengals referred questions about a possible league-mandated suspension to NFL officials.)

    Henry received the maximum sentence of 90 days in jail with 88 days suspended.

    However, Judge Douglas Grothaus imposed conditions on Henry in order for those 88 days to remain suspended. Henry must:

    -- Pay a $250 fine plus court costs.

    -- Have no criminal activity for two years.

    -- Not consume alcohol or drugs for two years.

    -- Report to the Kentucky Alternative Program for drug and alcohol assessment.

    -- Give two speeches – one at Two Rivers Middle School and one to Holmes High School athletes – on the dangers of drugs and alcohol and how they have negatively affected his career.

    If Henry violates any of those orders, he will have to serve the 88 suspended days.

    Henry was charged with giving alcohol to three underage females April 29 of last year.

  13. #72
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Wasn't he on probation for what he did in Florida last year? Doesn't this conviction affect that?
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  14. #73
    Yay! dabvu2498's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Wasn't he on probation for what he did in Florida last year? Doesn't this conviction affect that?
    He was not actually convicted/sentenced for the incident in Florida when the incident here occured, IIRC.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  15. #74
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini View Post
    However, Judge Douglas Grothaus imposed conditions on Henry in order for those 88 days to remain suspended. Henry must:

    -- Pay a $250 fine plus court costs.

    -- Have no criminal activity for two years.

    -- Not consume alcohol or drugs for two years.

    -- Report to the Kentucky Alternative Program for drug and alcohol assessment.

    -- Give two speeches one at Two Rivers Middle School and one to Holmes High School athletes on the dangers of drugs and alcohol and how they have negatively affected his career.

    If Henry violates any of those orders, he will have to serve the 88 suspended days.
    Even money says he's back in the slam for violating one or more of these conditions by the time 2 years is up.
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  16. #75
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Make it 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Even money says he's back in the slam for violating one or more of these conditions by the time 2 years is up.
    Heck, I'll put my money on before the next season starts.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate


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