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Thread: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Jan 23 Willie Mays receives 409 of 432 votes in the BBWAA election to earn enshrinement in the Hall of Fame.
    http://www.baseballlibrary.com/chron...1979#January23

    This is amazing to me. What idiot wouldn't vote for Willie Mays to make the Hall of Fame? There must have been 23 racist sportswriters still in the game.

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    They disrespectin'

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Willie was known to be pretty sullen and difficult with reporters, especially at the end of his career.

    Probably had something to do with it.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    http://www.baseballlibrary.com/chron...1979#January23

    This is amazing to me. What idiot wouldn't vote for Willie Mays to make the Hall of Fame? There must have been 23 racist sportswriters still in the game.

    Why do you think it has to be racism? Johnny Bench and Cal Ripken, Jr. weren't unanamous choices either.

    There seems to be a school of thught amongst the sportswriters that if someone like Babe Ruth wasn't a unanamous choice, no one should be. Perhaps Mays refused an interview with one of the reporters during his career. You never know with something like that.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Why do you think it has to be racism? Johnny Bench and Cal Ripken, Jr. weren't unanamous choices either.

    There seems to be a school of thught amongst the sportswriters that if someone like Babe Ruth wasn't a unanamous choice, no one should be. Perhaps Mays refused an interview with one of the reporters during his career. You never know with something like that.
    Because I can think of no other good reason for 23 people who know anything about baseball to not vote Willie Mays into the Hall of Fame. Plus, the bulk of Willie's career was played in a period when racist attitudes were much more prevalent. Whatever the explanation, it could not be a rational one.

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Because I can think of no other good reason for 23 people who know anything about baseball to not vote Willie Mays into the Hall of Fame. Plus, the bulk of Willie's career was played in a period when racist attitudes were much more prevalent. Whatever the explanation, it could not be a rational one.

    They don't have to be good reasons. That's my point. If it were racism, that's not a good reason. If it was because Babe Ruth wasn't voted in unanamously, that's not a good reason either. If it was because Willie snubbed a sportswriter or two and to get even they didn't vote for him, that's not a good reason. If it was because they didn't think he was a HOF player, that's not a good reason either.

    Joe DiMaggio had to wait 3 years after he was eligible to get in. Was that because he was Italian? Johnny Bench didn't get every vote. Was that because he was an Okie? What about Tom Seaver or Mickey Mantle? If you have proof that 23 writers were bigots, I'd like to hear it.
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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    It took Dimaggio's third year of eligibility to be inducted. Thats a way bigger crime than 23 writers not voting for Mays , and no I dont think the writers were prejudice against Italians or Yankees.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Because I can think of no other good reason for 23 people who know anything about baseball to not vote Willie Mays into the Hall of Fame. Plus, the bulk of Willie's career was played in a period when racist attitudes were much more prevalent. Whatever the explanation, it could not be a rational one.
    While I understand where you're coming from, I suspect some of those non-votes were from folks who believed he played too long after his prime and that he therefore didn't deserve first ballot election - that would be wrong and it would be stupid, but it doesn't have to necessarily be racists.

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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    I certainly think that racism played a huge part. I think now the voting percentages are a lot more fair. Although I think that Gwynn deserved a higher one than Ripken.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    They don't have to be good reasons. That's my point. If it were racism, that's not a good reason. If it was because Babe Ruth wasn't voted in unanamously, that's not a good reason either. If it was because Willie snubbed a sportswriter or two and to get even they didn't vote for him, that's not a good reason. If it was because they didn't think he was a HOF player, that's not a good reason either.

    Joe DiMaggio had to wait 3 years after he was eligible to get in. Was that because he was Italian? Johnny Bench didn't get every vote. Was that because he was an Okie? What about Tom Seaver or Mickey Mantle? If you have proof that 23 writers were bigots, I'd like to hear it.
    Of course I don't have any proof, neither did I ever represent that I did. However, to compare the other non-unanimous inductees as if Willie being black had nothing to do with some of those no-votes is not realistic considering the state of our country during his career. No offense was meant, and it was kinda tongue-in-cheek to boot and we'll never know why the idiots who did not vote for Willie voted the way they did.

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    Member Number_Fourteen's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    http://www.baseballlibrary.com/chron...1979#January23

    This is amazing to me. What idiot wouldn't vote for Willie Mays to make the Hall of Fame? There must have been 23 racist sportswriters still in the game.
    Always must be racism, that's it. If an injustice is perpetrated, whether real or imagined, why must it always fall under the category of "racism"?

    Are you not generalizing and lumping 23 "racist sportswriters" together in your assumption here? Itís ridiculous and hypocritical, especially when plenty of other greats weren't unanimous choices either.

    As the meaning and/or concept of "racism" gets tossed around so loosely these days -- in part, due to the news media and university brainwashing ramming it down our throats -- it will someday lose it's intended meaning entirely. The racism call may become similar to calling a guy a fascist, a Nazi, or a bastard.

    The prevailing outcome may only serve to hamstring the person of color (reverse racism?) rather than help. At some point, the fair-minded will have had enough & will no longer react and respond to an overused and consequently meaningless cry of racism when in fact, it might be truly justified in such case.

    So, please, give it a rest & try to use the term a little more sparingly & judiciously.

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    I've always felt that these things say more about the writers than they do about the players.

    There are some very petty and ignorant folks out there with votes. And some very big egos, who think they're the story, like Bill Conlan.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Willie was known to be pretty sullen and difficult with reporters, especially at the end of his career.

    Probably had something to do with it.
    And it shouldn't have anything to do with it.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

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    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: ...Then McGwire Really Has No Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath View Post
    I certainly think that racism played a huge part. I think now the voting percentages are a lot more fair. Although I think that Gwynn deserved a higher one than Ripken.
    For the life of me I can't see how anyone in their right mind could not vote for Cal Ripken, Jr. His streak alone puts him into the Hall of "Fame". In my opinion he was the most popular player of his era and one of the best. Gwynn deserves to be in the Hall but no one deserves it more than Ripken or Mays or Ruth or Aaron....
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.


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