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Thread: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

  1. #76
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Mark Bellhorn is HOTT like a locomotive in heat.
    You see, you just don't get player reviews like this from Marty
    Go Gators!

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  3. #77
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    I can't get excited by this for one reason. In 440 major league innings he has given up 501 hits. In fact, every season he has been in the majors, he's given up more hits than innings pitched. Look at the record
    Code:
    SEASON TEAM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L SV HLD BLSV ERA 
    2002 Hou 17 17 1 1 85.1 100 59 57 12 27 54 6 7 0 0 -- 6.01 
    2003 Hou 36 4 0 0 49.1 55 31 27 4 17 43 2 1 0 4 -- 4.93 
    2004 Oak 6 5 0 0 24.1 27 13 12 4 12 10 2 1 0 0 -- 4.44 
    2005 Oak 29 27 2 1 159.2 170 75 74 11 54 53 10 9 0 0 -- 4.17 
    2006 Oak 35 16 0 0 121.1 149 70 64 19 53 52 7 7 2 0 1 4.75 
    Total -- 123 69 3 2 440.0 501 248 234 50 163 212 27 25 2 4 1 4.79
    A lot of those grounders were going through to the outfield and a good number of those fly balls were leaving the yard--in a much bigger ballpark than ours. He did not improve the club and if this is our 5th starter and Wayne's best effort, we're in big trouble.
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  4. #78
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    OMG WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT MARK BELLHORN.

    Mark Bellhorn is HOTT like a locomotive in heat.

    (I also approve the Saarloos trade. I've actually thought before this is someone the reds should get.)
    So is this the cutie?


  5. #79
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    So is this the cutie?
    Yes, yes, I know. I have a forgiving heart, what can I say.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  6. #80
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    I like the Bellhorn signing. If he gets the at bats, he could hit 15-20 homers.

    I hope Saarloos works out, but I've never been too impressed with him. If you have a groundball pitcher, he should be able to strike people out also because they also give up lots of line drives, hits, batters on by error, and unearned runs. Plus, what's the point of a groundball pitcher if he still gives up a fairly high amount of homers?
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  7. #81
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    When it comes to bellhorn, he reminds me a lot of aurillia when he came over. If used right, I think he can provide about what aurillia gave us in 2005 (2006 is too much to ask).

    As far as Saarloos, I think he is a good fit for us. We have an IF with Phillips, Gonzalez and Encarnacion that is going to have a tremendous amount of range. That should be a big help for a ground ball pitcher like Saarloos. Not sure what the A's IF looked like last year.

  8. #82
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    I like the Bellhorn signing. If he gets the at bats, he could hit 15-20 homers.

    I hope Saarloos works out, but I've never been too impressed with him. If you have a groundball pitcher, he should be able to strike people out also because they also give up lots of line drives, hits, batters on by error, and unearned runs. Plus, what's the point of a groundball pitcher if he still gives up a fairly high amount of homers?
    Hmmm. A 32-year-old career .231 hitter who strikes out a lot (177 in 2004), plays the infield and has shown a steady decline at the plate? Wayne's going to sign enough of these $1 million players until our payroll will be $75 million of junk and castoffs. I can just see Narron's excuses for playing him over Encarnacion. The words scrappy and knows how to play the game come to mind.

    And we agree on Saarloos.
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  9. #83
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    The only thing about Mark Bellhorn is he'll be a Redleg only because he wears his socks high.

    Other than then that, if they think he can compete with Jeff Kleppinger, that should be an indication of how he's fallen.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  10. #84
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Hmmm. A 32-year-old career .231 hitter who strikes out a lot (177 in 2004), plays the infield and has shown a steady decline at the plate? Wayne's going to sign enough of these $1 million players until our payroll will be $75 million of junk and castoffs. I can just see Narron's excuses for playing him over Encarnacion. The words scrappy and knows how to play the game come to mind.

    And we agree on Saarloos.
    Bellhorn was signed to a minor-league contract.
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    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  11. #85
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath View Post
    The only thing about Mark Bellhorn is he'll be a Redleg only because he wears his socks high.
    He did not often wear them high when he was a Yankee, unfortunately.

    To address another question: a high home run rate in GABP is brutal, to be sure, but I think the greatest hope with a groundball pitcher is a handful of double plays with the Special New Defense. That's squidgy and tentative logic, I know, but I'm happy to see that defense getting some work.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  12. #86
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Lets talk about the effect of switching from AL to NL.... I think it will really help Saarloos, and make this is a good deal for us.

    Just look at Arroyo and Loshe last year: they both markedly improved their stats.

    I think there are sveral reasons for this: new league where batters don't know them, no DH in lineup (pitchers hitting instead...)...

    Average ERA in AL in 2006 was 4.56. Average in NL was 4.49. Yet several pitchers switching Al to NL had bigger improvements.
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  13. #87
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    Lets talk about the effect of switching from AL to NL.... I think it will really help Saarloos, and make this is a good deal for us.

    Just look at Arroyo and Loshe last year: they both markedly improved their stats.

    I think there are sveral reasons for this: new league where batters don't know them, no DH in lineup (pitchers hitting instead...)...

    Average ERA in AL in 2006 was 4.56. Average in NL was 4.49. Yet several pitchers switching Al to NL had bigger improvements.
    I'd like to see a divisional breakdown on this, actually. I think you could be right, but I also think there's a marked difference between coming to the NL from the AL West vs. the AL East or Central. Especially given the disparity between the Oakland and Cincinnati ballparks.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  14. #88
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    An experienced 5th starter not expected to be any more than he is, extreme ground ball pitcher obtained for a minor leaguer and only costing $1.2M? Not bad, I won't even criticize the deal if it doesn't work out.

    Not something that really floats the boat, but a nice periphreal move. Now at least one semi-major move this offseason would be nice.

  15. #89
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    Lets talk about the effect of switching from AL to NL.... I think it will really help Saarloos, and make this is a good deal for us.

    Just look at Arroyo and Loshe last year: they both markedly improved their stats.

    I think there are sveral reasons for this: new league where batters don't know them, no DH in lineup (pitchers hitting instead...)...

    Average ERA in AL in 2006 was 4.56. Average in NL was 4.49. Yet several pitchers switching Al to NL had bigger improvements.
    The simplest explanation is that right now, the AL has better teams and better players. Just about any AL player coming over to the NL has a chance to see a positive bump in his numbers.
    Not all who wander are lost

  16. #90
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade for A's pitcher Saarloos

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Hmmm. A 32-year-old career .231 hitter who strikes out a lot (177 in 2004), plays the infield and has shown a steady decline at the plate?
    Bellhorn is sort of a Dunn-lite when he gets the at bats. He strikes out a ton but will work for a walk. But, he is also inconsistent. Some years he just doesn't seem to get going and others his OBP is pretty decent. Maybe this will be an "on" year for him.

    Wayne's going to sign enough of these $1 million players until our payroll will be $75 million of junk and castoffs.
    Where does the million dollar number come from? Wasn't he signed to a minor league deal? Even if it was a million, that doesn't seem too crippling of a number.

    I can just see Narron's excuses for playing him over Encarnacion. The words scrappy and knows how to play the game come to mind.
    I would think he would have to be having an extremely "on" year to take any playing time from Encarnacion. Like you said, he strikes out a ton plus his defense isn't superior. He is a role player who can play several positions, has some pop, will take a walk, and hopefully have a decent on base percentage.
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