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Thread: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    I didn't see this posted, from Lonnie Wheeler of the Cincy Post:

    http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs....701260334/1027

    The choice for the Reds this winter has essentially been two-fold. Be nuts, or be quiet.

    Only one of the above is cheap. Not a tough call.

    Nevertheless, the Cincinnati baseball team would prefer that its name and that five-letter word find different sentences to fill out. Bob Castellini, the second-year owner, has been brandishing his competitive spirit in every speech, promising that a few bucks will not separate the Reds from the race. The produce prince, however, has yet to put his cabbage into anything more than cole slaw.

    In that stance, he has chosen the right market. Cincinnati is desperate for a contending team - last year's counts only if you can't count (to, say, 82) - but not so delirious that it expects the home club to spend $55 million, or even 55 crates of cantaloupes, on Gil Meche, as silly Kansas City did. Around here, nothing engenders empathy like high prices and unworthy ballplayers.

    So the Reds, for the most part, sit on the deck with fast-drying toes while the Cubs and Mets and Giants, etc., cannon-

    ball into the free-agent pool like show-off teen-agers, sending up the big splashes that soar through the sunshine and leave their surroundings sopping wet. And while Cincinnati's constituency deals uneasily with its boredom, it's basically cool with the whole thing.

    No $126 million here for nearly two presidential terms of Barry Zito (Giants). No $10.5 million for a summer of ol' Tom Glavine (Mets). No $10 million for a season of ol' Greg Maddux (Padres), $16 million for Andy Pettitte (Yankees), $8 million for Randy Wolf (Dodgers), $21 million for three years of Jason Marquis (Cubs), $24.5 million for the same amount of Adam Eaton (Phillies), $47 million for 36 months of Jason Schmidt (Dodgers again), $42 million for an Olympiad of Jeff Suppan (Brewers), or $40 million for that much Ted Lilly (Cubs again). There's more where those came from, but not a one of them outpitched the Reds' Aaron Harang last year.

    What do you want out of a starter? Wins? With 16, Harang tied for the National League lead in those. Innings? He shouldered 234, six behind teammate Bronson Arroyo, who led the league. Complete games? Harang's half-dozen led the NL in that category. Strikeouts? Led the league.

    In arbitration this winter, Harang is asking the Reds for $5.5 million. They're offering $4.25 million. On the open market, he'd make that for a couple extended road trips.

    So pay the man, and while you're at it, pay him for next year and the year after and the year after that, if the good fellow's willing. Serious, you say, about starting pitching? Pay the man to stay the man. That much, you owe the city.

    No doubt, the Reds are even now endeavoring to do that, and well may. It would be the best bargain of the offseason, the kind of deal they simply have to make to keep up with the Chicagos and Houstons and world champion Cardinals of the NL Central. But if they let Harang get away at that price, the pity party's over.

    So far, general manager Wayne Krivsky has shopped discerningly with his rolls of quarters. Alex Gonzalez appears to be the sort of lockdown shortstop Cincinnati sorely needs. Former prodigy Josh Hamilton was well worth the negligible risk. Mike Stanton and Jeff Conine are competent veterans.

    Some folks were displeased to see the Reds part this week with the youth (24) and Double-A numbers of reliever David Shafer in return for veteran Kirk Saarloos. They argue that Saarloos is just another .500 pitcher - but hey, at 27, he can be a .500 pitcher for years to come. Besides that, when he was 23, working the Texas League, the right-hander went 10-1 with a 1.40 earned run average, giving up only 48 hits in 83 innings. Those are Homer Bailey numbers. And you get five bonus years of big-league experience.

    It was another pretty-good gambit on Krivsky's part, another show of faith in his scouting department, another mild move to err on the side of value. Along those lines, the difficulty this winter has not been with what the Reds have done. It's with what they haven't done.

    They haven't found a closer. They haven't settled center field. They haven't kept up with the competition.

    They haven't traded Adam Dunn for Brad Penny.

    There'd be nothing nuts about that.

    Contact Lonnie Wheeler at lwheeler@cincypost.com.

    Read Lonnie's blog at http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/lonniewheeler/
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Pay Harang the $5.5 million. In this market that's a bargain.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Something I agree with. They need to lock Harang up for years....

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    They'll sign him.

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    I'm getting very tired of Wheeler referring to Bob as the "produce prince" or "Cabbage King" or any other alliterative ways that he manages to describe Bob. At first it was humorous but it's tired now and he doesn't know when to drop it.

    From what Wayne said to my group last Saturday night, he regrets not having signed Harang for close to what he was asking for last year because of how the market has exploded. But he said he is on very good terms with Aaron's agent and they hope to sign him long term.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post

    From what Wayne said to my group last Saturday night, he regrets not having signed Harang for close to what he was asking for last year because of how the market has exploded. But he said he is on very good terms with Aaron's agent and they hope to sign him long term.
    Here's hoping that they do.

    FWIW, the only baseball publication I ever saw that predicted the type of pitcher that Harang has turned into was Beckett Baseball Card monthly. Several years back when discussing minor league players that would soon impact the majors, they predicted that Harang would become the A's best pitcher. Well, thankfully, he's become the Reds' best pitcher.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I'm getting very tired of Wheeler referring to Bob as the "produce prince" or "Cabbage King" or any other alliterative ways that he manages to describe Bob. At first it was humorous but it's tired now and he doesn't know when to drop it.

    From what Wayne said to my group last Saturday night, he regrets not having signed Harang for close to what he was asking for last year because of how the market has exploded. But he said he is on very good terms with Aaron's agent and they hope to sign him long term.
    I very much like Wheeler's writing and style, but it is getting old. It would be great if we can get this done sooner rather than later.

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    Member CTA513's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    They'll sign him.
    I just hope its more than a 1 year deal.

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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Theres been alot of talk today about a Dunn for Penny trade.Does anyone think theres something to it or is it just speculation on the medias part.I say this because earlier they were a little noise about a trade of Dunn for Penny but there hasnt been much talk of it as of late.Now all of a sudden today its in 2 or 3 articles in the media,specualtion or not.

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by CTA513 View Post
    I just hope its more than a 1 year deal.
    So do I.

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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    Theres been alot of talk today about a Dunn for Penny trade.Does anyone think theres something to it or is it just speculation on the medias part.I say this because earlier they were a little noise about a trade of Dunn for Penny but there hasnt been much talk of it as of late.Now all of a sudden today its in 2 or 3 articles in the media,specualtion or not.

    I've seen it posted here half a dozen times that the trades the media screams to the world in their rumor mills usually don't happen. I don't want to incite another dunn bashing or lovefest but I would love to see that sort of manuever though. harang penny arroyo 1-2-3? all day everyday sweet heart.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    I've seen it posted here half a dozen times that the trades the media screams to the world in their rumor mills usually don't happen. I don't want to incite another dunn bashing or lovefest but I would love to see that sort of manuever though. harang penny arroyo 1-2-3? all day everyday sweet heart.
    So who makes up for the departure of his offensive production?

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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    So who makes up for the departure of his offensive production?

    Dunn for Penny
    Deno in Left
    1-2-3 of Harang Penny and Arroyo
    increased defense in left
    freel in right and deno in left could basically cover for KGJ in center
    EE will have an increased number of AB's this year however it will be impossible to make up for 40+ HRs, .500+ SLG% and .365+ OBP.

    lineup-
    RF freel
    LF denorfia
    3B EE
    CF KGJ
    1B Hatty
    C Ross
    2B Phillips
    SS Gonzalez


    Harang
    Penny
    Arroyo
    Milton(Lohse after milton's knee gives out)
    Lohse/Saarlos



    Basic outline of a team that will be winning with increased steals, hit and runs, solid defense (EE is improving) and, quality pitching. More 4-3 victories instead of 9 to 8 defeats. IMHO
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    Dunn for Penny
    Deno in Left
    1-2-3 of Harang Penny and Arroyo
    increased defense in left
    freel in right and deno in left could basically cover for KGJ in center
    EE will have an increased number of AB's this year however it will be impossible to make up for 40+ HRs, .500+ SLG% and .365+ OBP.

    lineup-
    RF freel
    LF denorfia
    3B EE
    CF KGJ
    1B Hatty
    C Ross
    2B Phillips
    SS Gonzalez


    Harang
    Penny
    Arroyo
    Milton(Lohse after milton's knee gives out)
    Lohse/Saarlos



    Basic outline of a team that will be winning with increased steals, hit and runs, solid defense (EE is improving) and, quality pitching. More 4-3 victories instead of 9 to 8 defeats. IMHO
    Dunn should get more of a return than Penny.. I got to at least think you have to ask for Ethier or Kemp plus a Double A prospect. I would prefer Ethier.. he shows pop and can hit for average.. something that would slightly come close to Dunn's HR power but counter his K's and failure to get those Sac Flies and not to mention defense. Penny would bolster this rotation and perhaps give Cincinnati one of its best rotations in 15-20 years. You then move Deno/Freel to CF, Junior has got to move to RF, you have Edwin who is tearing up winter ball at 3rd, the middle infield is about as good if not better than Larkin/Boone back in the mid to late 90's, then you have Hatteberg/Conine sharing time at 1st and both can contribute at the plate, as for catchers.. lets just hope it is Ross & Javy, and in just the past season and this offseason Krivsky has focused on the Bullpen. Some say the team would be depleated if a Dunn for Penny trade went down.. but if it did for the players that I mentioned I think we better the club as far as all around.. not in the power department where I think the game of baseball has been headed since the mid 90's. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Dunn to LA deal during Spring Training. If Dunn this season can show he can make better contact and cut down on his strikeouts the Reds will cash in on him.

  16. #15
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Harang, or pity party's over

    But I apologize for getting off-topic.. Harang deserves a Long Term Contract. The Reds owe that to him for being the Ace of this staff. With the proposed offer Aaron gave the Reds.. the Reds should have never.... ever... countered with 4.25 million. Lohse makes that money.. is Harang the same pitcher as Lohse.. does the team rely on Kyle like they do Aaron? The Reds should lock Harang up to a 5 year 45-50 million dollar contract that will be cheap probably come next year..


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