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Thread: reds of the near future!.!.!.

  1. #16
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Lets be fair here, Frank Robinson was a lot better than Adam Dunn is. Not a slight on Dunn, but Robinson is an all time great.
    I don't disagree with that. The comparison wasn't to Robinson directly, but to the notion that Dunn would necessarily be on his downside at 30. That's an old axiom that I think guys like Robby showed to be erroneous. Now Dunn would have to do a lot of work to not be on that downside, but I'd like to think it's not a given.

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  3. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    I think when large guys that are the size of Adam Dunn get into their 30's they arent going to play as well, especially in the NL, as they did when they were in their 20's. I just cant see a 275 pound Adam Dunn being 32 years old and being able to play the outfield. He is already one of, if not the worst outfielders at his position, add years and probably a few pounds to it and he really needs to be at first base or DH.

  4. #18
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    If there truly is no interest in Dunn from other teams (and I still find that difficult to believe), this would be the perfect time to step up and sign him to a long term deal also. The Reds might be able to manage a sweet deal.
    Last edited by Phhhl; 02-09-2007 at 12:25 PM.

  5. #19
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleaaaron View Post
    Dont think stubbs would be on the bench at all. No poss.
    At this time, stubbs will be 24-25 and will not be our 4th OF. He will either be starting in MLB, starting in AAA (for 1st half of season), or traded "for a change of scenery" as he is a 3rd overall pick if he doesn't seem to project to start, someone will believe they can fix him. So no he will not be on the 2010 bench. Also Freel will definately not be here, as I love him as a player, he will probably become a drifter after this season, and as he will be 35, the only chance that he will be here is if he came back for a one year hiatus to plug a hole.
    We can add Bronson to that list!
    Stubbs was the 8th overall pick in the 2006 draft, not third. you might have been thinking of Chris Gruler who was the third overall pick in the 2002 draft.

    Either way, good point on the trading idea and about Freel. But I think he's such a fan favorite that the Reds will keep him around. Not to mention that he'll cost less to keep since he still doesn't have a finite position. So I'll put him on the bench. If that's the case, the Red's might not trade Stubbs unless they get something real good. Stubbs still has defense, speed, and power. If things don't pan out with his hitting ability, he can still be a defensive replacement, pinch hitter, and a pinch runner. I don't think too many GM's will give up much for him if he doesn't put the bat on the ball in the minors since he was the 8th overall pick in a very weak draft. In a normal draft, they said he would be around the 20th-30th pick.

    Update:
    Starting Line-Up:
    OF Jay Bruce
    OF Chris Denorfia
    OF ____________
    1B Joey Votto
    2B Brandon Phillips
    3B Edwin Encarnacion
    SS ____________
    C ____________

    CL Bill Bray
    RP Gary Majewski
    RP Todd Coffey
    RP Matt Belisle
    RP Elizardo Ramirez
    RP ___________
    RP ___________

    SP Aaron Harang
    SP Homer Bailey
    SP Johnhy Cueto
    SP Travis Wood
    SP Bronson Arroyo

    Bench
    C ___________
    OF Drew Stubbs
    IF Milton Loo
    Utility Ryan Freel
    ____________

  6. #20
    redsgabp
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think when large guys that are the size of Adam Dunn get into their 30's they arent going to play as well, especially in the NL, as they did when they were in their 20's. I just cant see a 275 pound Adam Dunn being 32 years old and being able to play the outfield. He is already one of, if not the worst outfielders at his position, add years and probably a few pounds to it and he really needs to be at first base or DH.

    Dunn could always be moved to first base for a second time.

  7. #21
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think when large guys that are the size of Adam Dunn get into their 30's they arent going to play as well, especially in the NL, as they did when they were in their 20's. I just cant see a 275 pound Adam Dunn being 32 years old and being able to play the outfield. He is already one of, if not the worst outfielders at his position, add years and probably a few pounds to it and he really needs to be at first base or DH.
    The flip side is that games built around power and patience don't diminish as quickly with age IMO. Its true that if Dunn continues to add weight he'll have problems, but the guys built around speed and athleticism lose a lot of value as they age and lose a step or two.

    I'd say that Ryan Freel would be useless if he didn't have plus speed, but Dunn could still hit HR as his footspeed continues to decline.

  8. #22
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Freel is a free agent after this season.
    How do you figure?

    By my count, he still has 3 years left.

  9. #23
    redsgabp
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    The flip side is that games built around power and patience don't diminish as quickly with age IMO. Its true that if Dunn continues to add weight he'll have problems, but the guys built around speed and athleticism lose a lot of value as they age and lose a step or two.

    I'd say that Ryan Freel would be useless if he didn't have plus speed, but Dunn could still hit HR as his footspeed continues to decline.
    so true...

    babe ruth anyone?

    no i'm not saying dunner is a babe ruth, but the babe was a puggy guy who could still crank them out of the park despite the weight.

    maybe we should see if dunn can pitch too.
    LOL

  10. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: reds of the near future!.!.!.

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    How do you figure?

    By my count, he still has 3 years left.
    He does, but he will only be a bargain for one more. He's already 31, seems to be losing his IF versatility and will likely get a big raise. I still say a trade now would net the reds something of value for the run at true contention in 2009 or so. The Reds won't get that value by waiting.

    The Reds have pressing needs in other areas that Freel could probably help fill with a deal. The table below (PECOTA) says that the Reds have a very similar option as tablesetters go with more power potential, youth and after this year at significantly fewer $.

    Code:
    	|-----Freel-------|         |------Deno----------|
    	OBP	SLG	Age	        OBP	 SLG	Age
    2007	0.361	0.404	31	      0.365	0.459	26
    2008	0.360	0.402	32	      0.364	0.446   27
    2009	0.369	0.412	33	      0.365	0.453	28
    2010	0.364	0.409	34	      0.358	0.445	29
    2011	0.367	0.405	35	      0.362	0.448	30
    Freel's big advantage over Deno is his ability to play the IF, and with Bellhorn and Keppinger on hand, it does not appear that the Reds have any plans to use him in that manner.


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