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Thread: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

  1. #196
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    All season I was sort oh "ehh" on Arroyo. I appreciated his contributions to the team but at the same time I felt like he was just doing his time in Cincinnati until he could leave for the bigger and better pastures. Now, after reading his comments about the city and how much he loves it here, I think he might be the next Reds player I latch onto as one of my favorites. Ever since Casey has left I haven't really had a player that I really liked. Last year when I wanted to get a new Reds jersey I bought a 1990 Larkin model. I respect many of the guys like Harang, Griffey, Phillips, but no one that I really absolutely rooted hard for every day. Arroyo has shown a commitment to the team that I think us fans need to show.

    Folks, the catch 22 is now over. It's always been an argument back and forth here about whether the team should spend money to draw fans or whether fans should show up to get the team to spend money. Bob has just dropped big cash for our two MVP's from last year. If the attendance doesn't improve this year it will just be a slap in the face to him. If this team stays near .500 and competes all year and is in it then the ballpark better absolutely packed come every August and September game. I am so excited for this season to start. I finally feel like Wayne is showing me something after I got a little down with the Lopez/Kearns trade. If these two deals haven't given him a little bit longer leash then I'm not sure what will short of trading for Pujols.

    I think if this team adds one bat and one proven closer (much easier said then done) they are a serious playoff contender. I think the deal for a bat can wait until the all star break. If Wayne can just pull something off for a proven back of the bullpen arm I am ready to defend this team's playoffs chances against any other team in the league.

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  3. #197
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    The plan is clear -- invest in pitching. Defense -- signing Gonzalez, asking Griffey to consider a move to a corner spot., etc., is also clearly a priority, as Krivsky has said it would be. For me, that's sufficient evidence of a plan at work. For those who seem to be saying a plan constitutes being able to strengthen your team in the optimal manner in every area of possible weakness in a single year (i.e, let's get a Detroit-style bullpen tout de suite, thanks, or let's get us a #3 starter chop chop), I'd say there's no GM who can have that kind of plan and accomplish it. If there is such a GM, who is it?
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I'm shocked as I didn't see this one coming. Good move, Wayne.

    Homer Bailey
    Aaron Harang
    Bronson Arroyo
    Johnny Cueto

    I love the sound of that.
    Yep, exactly.
    Last edited by reds44; 02-08-2007 at 09:46 PM.
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  4. #198
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Yes, I often find myself getting wistful over the meaningless contract savings it created. Good times.
    I just miss having a lefty in the rotation that I actually disliked more than Eric Milton.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  5. #199
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I just miss having a lefty in the rotation that I actually disliked more than Eric Milton.
    I would not wish this on my worst enemy.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  6. #200
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  7. #201
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseyfan21 View Post
    I think if this team adds one bat and one proven closer (much easier said then done) they are a serious playoff contender. I think the deal for a bat can wait until the all star break. If Wayne can just pull something off for a proven back of the bullpen arm I am ready to defend this team's playoffs chances against any other team in the league.
    The 2007 team is no different now than it was 3 days ago.

    Harang contract was a no-brainer on the Reds side.

    Arroyo deal? Scary. He could crash back to Earth this season and then the Bronson Milton name will be thrown around. Personally, I think WK could have waited for a deal on Arroyo. It's nice to see the FO committed to pitching, but I felt the same way when Milty was signed. I've learned from that.

    So basically, I still think this team will have a nearly impossible task of breaking .500 this season. Pitching 3-5 is still horrific. Still question marks in the field and in the lineup. Still wasted money in the bullpen.

    But the team's future looks like it has promise. All Arroyo has to do is pitch like a #2-3 and he'll work out, though the $ is a little high. Bruce, Votto, EdE, Dunn?, Phillips, Deno? is a nice core. Here's a few avenues WK should test out:

    1) Start shopping Freel. This has to be done. Shoot for a young power arm in the BP if possible, closer material. Florida would be a nice place to start looking.

    2) Start shaking out Bob's wallet for the draft. This draft looms large, as they have multiple higher picks in a pretty strong draft. Get some guys who look as if they can arrive in 2-3 years, timed with the other prospects. It would be nice to get a college starter, as 3 deep in the rotation is nice but 4 deep is nicer.

    3) Trade the older guys in the bullpen come deadline time. I'd be willing to bet they're gonna be out of it, so take what you can get and save some of that money.

    Just some thoughts.

  8. #202
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseyfan21 View Post
    It's always been an argument back and forth here about whether the team should spend money to draw fans or whether fans should show up to get the team to spend money. Bob has just dropped big cash for our two MVP's from last year.
    I am glad Castellini made the commitment to go after starting pitching---especially Harang. It brings an immediate psychological/emmotional return to the fans that should translate into some $s in the form of ticket sales, merchandise, etc.

    However, it isn't like BC reached into his pocket and tossed a big wad of bills on the table. Almost all of the money spent over the last two days doesn't come due until after the '08 season---a season that sees a significant drop in the cost of players like Dunn, Griffey and Milton. In other words, Bob spent future dollars, not cash. A good move to sign these guys but not nearly as big a gesture as it seems at first glance. (shrug)

    Rem
    Last edited by remdog; 02-08-2007 at 10:53 PM.

  9. #203
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post

    Arroyo deal? Scary. He could crash back to Earth this season and then the Bronson Milton name will be thrown around.
    I don't get the crash back to earth thing. His numbers this year we're better for sure, but I think a lot of them can be explained by him moving to the NL.

    Code:
    SEASON 	TEAM 	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	SO 	W 	L 	WHIP 	G/F 	OPS 	ERA
    2004 	Bos 	178.2 	171 	99 	80 	17 	47 	142 	10 	9 	1.22	0.85 	.714 	4.03
    2005 	Bos 	205.1 	213 	116 	103 	22 	54 	100 	14 	10 	1.30 	0.97 	.758 	4.52
    2006 	Cin 	240.2 	222 	98 	88 	31 	64 	184 	14 	11 	1.19	0.98 	.690 	3.29
    Best guess is that 2007 resembles something in the middle of 2005 and 2006 (2004 with 200+innings), but there isn't that much of a difference. Anything else is kind of unforeseen and is just part of the gamble that all teams take.

    Considering the value pitchers near his general ability are getting on the open market, this is a great, great deal for the Reds in the short term. And given the belief that the market will only get more pricey, odds are good that it will be a great deal in the long term as well.
    Last edited by guttle11; 02-08-2007 at 10:59 PM.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  10. #204
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    I don't get the crash back to earth thing. His numbers this year we're better for sure, but I think a lot of them can be explained by him moving to the NL.

    Code:
    SEASON 	TEAM 	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	SO 	W 	L 	WHIP 	G/F 	OPS 	ERA
    2004 	Bos 	178.2 	171 	99 	80 	17 	47 	142 	10 	9 	1.22	0.85 	.714 	4.03
    2005 	Bos 	205.1 	213 	116 	103 	22 	54 	100 	14 	10 	1.30 	0.97 	.758 	4.52
    2006 	Cin 	240.2 	222 	98 	88 	31 	64 	184 	14 	11 	1.19	0.98 	.690 	3.29
    Best guess is that 2007 resembles something in the middle of 2005 and 2006, but there isn't that much of a difference. Anything else is kind of unforeseen and is just part of the gamble that all teams take.

    Considering the value pitchers near his general ability are getting on the open market, this is a great, great deal for the Reds.
    Not much of a difference? Are you sure? I know this is a Reds board and we're all at least a little biased, but put BA on the Cards last year and have him sign this contract and I am sure more than a few people would throw the ol' "regression to the mean" phrase around.

    Compare his tenure in the AL to Lilly's and then I guess Lilly's contract doesn't look so bad?

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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    The 2007 team is no different now than it was 3 days ago.
    But doesn't it just feel better?

    It's that spring optimism. I hadn't gotten my yearly dose of it until the past couple days. I was talking with a friend the day after the Harang deal and we were sort of going through the lineup and just dreaming about how things could go right this year...Dunn and Edwin come on with strong years to carry the offense. Milton and Lohse each put up around 10 wins. Harang and Arroyo each put up 15 wins. Homer comes up part way through the year and adds 10 wins or so to the mix. Stanton and Weathers hold down the back end until Guardado can come on strong in July.

    This is the time of year when it's ok to not be a realist. Just thinking about how baseball is about 2 months away makes me excited for spring training to start.

  12. #206
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Not much of a difference? Are you sure? I know this is a Reds board and we're all at least a little biased, but put BA on the Cards last year and have him sign this contract and I am sure more than a few people would throw the ol' "regression to the mean" phrase around.

    Compare his tenure in the AL to Lilly's and then I guess Lilly's contract doesn't look so bad?
    Bronson had alot of things going for him last season-league change, alot of innings against some of the worst lineups in baseball, and luck (very high strand rate).


    I seriously doubt Arroyo will have a sub-4.00 ERA (I could generally care less about ERA anyway) but he's still a safe bet for somewhere around 200 quality (above league average) innings... For $4M, I don't think people can complain if that is in fact his destiny for '07. Basically, I think it's reasonable to expect him to be roughly as effective as last year but just not as lucky.

    It's the last two years of the extension that I think are pretty risky.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #207
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Not much of a difference? Are you sure? I know this is a Reds board and we're all at least a little biased, but put BA on the Cards last year and have him sign this contract and I am sure more than a few people would throw the ol' "regression to the mean" phrase around.

    Compare his tenure in the AL to Lilly's and then I guess Lilly's contract doesn't look so bad?
    The difference is that Lilly's contract is for $7 million more than Bronson, and though their recent numbers are similar, Bronson's are probably slightly better than Lilly's, considering he eats more innings. The $7 million difference strikes me because I have a small market mind, not necessarily because of what teams they sign with.

    Code:
    SEASON 	TEAM  	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	SO 	W 	L 	WHIP 	G/F 	OPS 	ERA
    2004 	Tor 	197.1 	171 	92 	89 	26 	89 	168 	12 	10 	1.31 	0.80 	.709 	4.06
    2005 	Tor 	126.1 	135 	79 	78 	23 	58 	96 	10 	11 	1.53 	0.92 	.813 	5.56
    2006 	Tor 	181.2 	179 	98 	87 	28 	81 	160 	15 	13 	1.43 	0.89 	.762 	4.31
    Last edited by guttle11; 02-08-2007 at 11:18 PM.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  14. #208
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    The bold section might have already been discussed but I don't remember it. I found that very interesting...

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2758621

    CINCINNATI -- In their biggest spending splurge since they brought Ken Griffey Jr. home, the Cincinnati Reds have locked up their top two starting pitchers for the next four years.



    Arroyo
    It's a sign of how priorities have changed.

    Right-hander Bronson Arroyo got a two-year extension Thursday that will pay him an additional $25 million and keep him under contract through at least 2010. There's a team option for the following season.

    The agreement came two days after top starter Aaron Harang avoided arbitration by agreeing to a $36.5 million, four-year deal that also includes a club option for 2011.

    "I honestly didn't think they were going to even talk to me about a contract this offseason," said Arroyo, who had two years left on his current deal. "But they were serious."

    For the first time since they won the World Series in 1990, the Reds have a pair of starters worth such long-term deals and an owner willing to spend the money. Harang and Arroyo will make at least $71 million over the next four years.

    "Most baseball people agree that with Bronson and Aaron Harang, the top of our rotation is as strong as any in baseball," owner Bob Castellini said.

    The two contracts amounted to the team's biggest spending splurge since 1990, when previous owner Carl Lindner gave Griffey a $116.5 million, nine-year deal to play for his hometown team. The downside of that deal was that it forced the team to scrimp on pitching to stay within its budget.

    In the following years, the Reds also gave big contracts to two other position players: shortstop Barry Larkin (three years, $27 million) and first baseman Sean Casey (three years, $20.4 million).

    "When you look at all the Braves' winning years, you look at their rotation," general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "Your starting pitching is so important to the success of your team. It's nice to have these two guys signed for the period of time we do now."

    Harang, 28, became only the eighth NL pitcher since 1960 to lead the league in wins (16) and strikeouts (216). He started 35 games, pitched 234 1-3 innings and had a 3.76 earned run average.

    Arroyo, 29, was nearly his mirror image. He went 14-11, also started 35 games, pitched a league-high 240 2-3 innings and had a 3.29 ERA.

    The Reds got Arroyo from Boston for outfielder Wily Mo Pena during spring training last year. Arroyo initially missed the big city, where he pitched in a World Series and launched his music career.

    "Last year in the beginning of the season, I was still watching a lot of Sox games and I was kind of still caught up in the middle emotionally about being traded," Arroyo said. "After being here a year and going through what we went through last year with having a chance to make the playoffs, I'm a Red through and through now."

    The Reds finished 80-82 -- their sixth straight losing season -- but were in contention until the final weeks in the NL Central. Arroyo was one of 36 players acquired by Krivsky after he got the job last February.

    Arroyo enjoyed the city and developed a local following for his musical career. The singer/guitarist has played several concerts in the area, the first of which was sponsored by the Reds' community fund.

    "I think the team here definitely has embraced that part of me a little more than Boston did," he said. "I think Boston discouraged it from the fact that they thought it was a little bit of a distraction to me."

    When the Reds approached him about an extension a couple of weeks ago and he saw their initial offer, he was receptive to working it out.

    Arroyo gets base salaries of $4,125,000 this year and $3.95 million in 2008, figures set under the old contract. The extension includes a $2.5 million signing bonus that will be paid next year.

    Arroyo will get salaries of $9.5 million in 2009 and $11 million in 2010. There is a club option at $11 million for 2011 with a $2 million buyout. The option can escalate to $13 million, based on innings.

    As part of the agreement, Arroyo dropped provisions in his existing contract that could have increased his 2008 income by $650,000.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  15. #209
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Arroyo is a lot better than Lilly IMO.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  16. #210
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    "Last year in the beginning of the season, I was still watching a lot of Sox games and I was kind of still caught up in the middle emotionally about being traded," Arroyo said. "After being here a year and going through what we went through last year with having a chance to make the playoffs, I'm a Red through and through now."
    My biggest personal fear as a human being is ever becoming a sentimental person, and I think that sentiment should play no part in any human decision, but if I'm completely honest with myself, crap like that makes me teary.

    Thanks for the link.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.


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