Turn Off Ads?
Page 16 of 17 FirstFirst ... 6121314151617 LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 255

Thread: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

  1. #226
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    7,714

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by ESPN
    The two contracts amounted to the team's biggest spending splurge since 1990, when previous owner Carl Lindner gave Griffey a $116.5 million, nine-year deal to play for his hometown team.
    :ughmamoru
    Makes all the routine posts.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #227
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,351

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    My worthless opinion on the Arroyo signing....

    I like the Harang deal a lot, but I'm not buying into the hype of the Arroyo deal. On one side, it shows that the team is committed to some form of stability, which I dig, but on the other, it's quite a bit of money for a guy that may have peaked in 2006.

    If I have the numbers right, Bronson was due to make 8 million over the next two years and then enter his first year of free agency in 2009. 4M per year is very inexpensive for a quality pitcher like Arroyo. Now with this deal, we have extended him two years, essentially buying his first two years of free agency for 25M.

    Let's say he doesn't get hurt and he equals his career year of 2006 for the next two years. Two years where we were paying him roughly 8M (4M per). Now, let's say we didn't re-sign him yesterday. So now 2009 comes along and he's a Free Agent. Wouldn't you think 2 years at 25M would be pretty steep? And that's after you get to watch him for two more years to judge whether he's worthy. Yesterday's deal is a huge gamble. Not only is it a ton of money. It's a ton of money for a guy who could have peaked in 2006 and has been overworked. 25M would also make it hard to deal him. We may have to eat some dough, if necessary, just to unload him.

    I'll be happy to be wrong with my concerns if he can match 2006 for the next 4+ years. I just don't think an organization that already screwed itself with the Milton deal, two years ago, can afford this high of a gamble again, with such a limited payroll.

    Arroyo went from being a great value (4M per) which a cost-conscience organizaion such as the Reds desperately needs, to being just another one of those expensive question marks (see: Gil Meche) that potentially could evolve into an expensive mistake (see: Eric Milton).

    As for Harang, it was a no-brainer. He is a horse and a great foundation to build the staff around. And we got him cheap. A+ for signing him longterm at such a great value. C- for the Arroyo deal. It wasn't necessary, but I understand it might have bought some goodwill with the Reds faithful However, the Milton deal was made for that exact purpose as well.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 02-09-2007 at 12:10 PM.

  4. #228
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,258

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Well, you can look at this deal by splitting it into 2 years cheap, 2 years expensive, or you can look at the total money involved, spread out over the 4 years, and ask yourself, in light of the money being paid for mediocre pitching this year, is it a good deal? What is that, 4 years at a little over $8M a year? If you look at it that way, I still think it's a good deal if Arroyo is a solid #2 starter this year and a solid #3-4 pitcher in the following years. Imagine what a #3 or #4 pitcher will be paid in those years. It's not like salaries for starting pitchers are going to go down in the future. Even half-way decent starting pitching is scarce if you aren't one of the big boys or developing it yourself.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  5. #229
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Let's say he doesn't get hurt and he equals his career year of 2006 for the next two years. Two years where we were paying him roughly 8M (4M per). Now, let's say we didn't re-sign him yesterday. So now 2009 comes along and he's a Free Agent. Wouldn't you think 2 years at 25M would be pretty steep? And that's after you get to watch him for two more years to judge whether he's worthy. Yesterday's deal is a huge gamble. Not only is it a ton of money. It's a ton of money for a guy who could have peaked in 2006 and has been overworked. .
    What is the alternative then? Spend a boatload of money now on a FA pitcher that you know for sure has peaked? (Suppan, Weaver, Menche). Do nothing and close the window of opportunity of having two decent arms on the staff past 2008?

    They are "locking in prices" now on a player instead of gambling on getting a better player later on when prices are most certinally going to be higher.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  6. #230
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,718

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    I agree with BuckEye that yesterday's deal was a "huge gamble." But the Harang deal was also a "huge gamble." Most times you sign a pitcher for the long-term it is a huge gamble. The Mets signed Pedro -- huge gamble. The Cubs signed Lily -- huge gamble.

    The problem is that, unless you take the gamble some time, you are constantly in a frantic search for pitching. So you bite the bullet on occasion, go for it, and try to buy a good insurance policy to protect against injury.

    Everybody seems very sure that Harang will be better than Arroyo going forward. But their numbers last year overall were amazingly similar. Harang is a bit more of a strikeout pitcher, to his advantage. Arroyo was far more effective than Harang at GABP, to Bronson's advantage. And both were used heavily -- hard to say which of the two will hold up better with continued heavy use.

    You have to commit to someone at some point. These guys are in their prime, no arm injuries, workhorses, successful. I think WK was right to sign em.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-09-2007 at 12:53 PM.

  7. #231
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,351

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    What is the alternative then? Spend a boatload of money now on a FA pitcher that you know for sure has peaked? (Suppan, Weaver, Menche). Do nothing and close the window of opportunity of having two decent arms on the staff past 2008?

    They are "locking in prices" now on a player instead of gambling on getting a better player later on when prices are most certinally going to be higher.
    Good question. I don't know. Maybe just play it out another year. See how Bronson's arm holds up and if he can match the success he had in 2006, and then maybe negotiate from there. I just think that there is a lot of time involved and a lot can happen. Don't get me wrong, I applaud them doing something, I'm just a little leery of shelling out this kind of money on a not-so-sure thing. I know there are no sure thing's, but it just seems like this will either be awesome or blow up in our faces. I hope it works for the best. I really do.

    On the plus side, the market in two years for a Bronson may be 15M+. I'm hoping that's the case and we have him under market value again.

  8. #232
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Good question. I don't know. Maybe just play it out another year. See how Bronson's arm holds up and if he can match the success he had in 2006, and then maybe negotiate from there.
    I can see where you are comming from. But the closer he gets to FA, especially if he performs well, the less interested in a LTC he may be. He even commented on the guarenteed money at the presser, so it's obviously on his mind.

    But let's say he regresses a little bit from 2006. He's still better or at the very least, on par with a lot of the FA options out there this year.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  9. #233
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,949

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    I can see where you are comming from. But the closer he gets to FA, especially if he performs well, the less interested in a LTC he may be. He even commented on the guarenteed money at the presser, so it's obviously on his mind.

    But let's say he regresses a little bit from 2006. He's still better or at the very least, on par with a lot of the FA options out there this year.
    Yes but you should be comparing him to the free agent crops after next season and the next and the next....those are the appropriate markets and arms....

    It's very possible that the market will correct itself and there certainly are much better free agent crops in the upcoming years.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #234
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Yes but you should be comparing him to the free agent crops after next season and the next and the next....those are the appropriate markets and arms....

    It's very possible that the market will correct itself and there certainly are much better free agent crops in the upcoming years.
    Thats a good point. The FA crop will be better. But locking up Arroyo now gives us the opportunity to also go after one of these FA's in the future and have both guys. That is, instead of having to replace Arroyo and still possibly only have 2 decent arms in the rotation.

    The market may "correct" itself, but generally speaking prices are always going to be greater in the future than they are now. If you can lock up the bird in the hand at today's prices and leave to door open too add to the rotation, instead of just replaceing what you lost, I think the smart money says you have to risk the injury and possible performance regression.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  11. #235
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,351

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    The market may "correct" itself, but generally speaking prices are always going to be greater in the future than they are now. If you can lock up the bird in the hand at today's prices and leave to door open too add to the rotation, instead of just replaceing what you lost, I think the smart money says you have to risk the injury and possible performance regression.
    Good point. I certainly don't have a problem paying Arroyo 33M over four years. I just can't shake the fact from my head that we already had him for 8M over two years and we have dipped into his first two years free agency at 25M. Two years ago, I'd be thrilled with this extension. Now I'm somewhat apprehensive.

    Eric Milton is to blame.

  12. #236
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Good point. I certainly don't have a problem paying Arroyo 33M over four years. I just can't shake the fact from my head that we already had him for 8M over two years and we have dipped into his first two years free agency at 25M. Two years ago, I'd be thrilled with this extension. Now I'm somewhat apprehensive.

    Eric Milton is to blame.
    Something tells me the ghost of Eric Milton past will haunt a lot of us for a long time to come.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  13. #237
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Back in Florida
    Posts
    8,155

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    I just hope Harang and Arroyo don't turn into Prior and Wood.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  14. #238
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,914

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Well, you can look at this deal by splitting it into 2 years cheap, 2 years expensive, or you can look at the total money involved, spread out over the 4 years, and ask yourself, in light of the money being paid for mediocre pitching this year, is it a good deal? What is that, 4 years at a little over $8M a year? If you look at it that way, I still think it's a good deal if Arroyo is a solid #2 starter this year and a solid #3-4 pitcher in the following years. Imagine what a #3 or #4 pitcher will be paid in those years. It's not like salaries for starting pitchers are going to go down in the future. Even half-way decent starting pitching is scarce if you aren't one of the big boys or developing it yourself.
    This recent deal can only be looked at in regards to the last 2 seasons. Since he was already signed to those years, that part of the contract is completely seperate from this new deal. The question is, will he be worth 12.5 per season in 2009 and 2010. I think it's a good gamble. The market will likely keep going up and if he's a decent pitcher, I think he would probably be worth about 15M per season when it came to free agency.

  15. #239
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Centerville, OH
    Posts
    20,422

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Isn't it obvious?

    1. Collect old relief pitchers
    2. ???
    3. Profit
    Sorry I'm late.

    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

    Your Mom is happy.

  16. #240
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Portland, Or
    Posts
    5,041

    Re: Bronson Arroyo agrees to two-year contract extension

    In a market like ours, what's the best type of contract we can hope to expect from a quality pitcher?

    I think it's trying to lock up solid #3 guys who've proven themselves, are no older than 28-29, can expect to give us numbers of #3 or #2 guys for each of the next four years and get them currently at a cost of $36M for those four years.

    I think these two signings are right there. They are for a little less money, the pitchers are better than solid #3 guys right now, Arroyo is a little older, so he might have a bigger dropoff three and four years from now (not to mention that the NL may get used to his breaking ball), but Harang is 29 and has a more powerful pitch and go deeper into games than Arroyo can, though that wasn't at all the case last year.

    In the next 12 months, we need another one of these.
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25