For me, these signings are the final nail in the coffin of that old Lindner mentality this board can't let go of. You know, the one that claims, "this cheap team is too cheap to compete because it's cheap."
Two words that abruptly stopped coming out of the front office once Castellini took over are "small" and "market." He stated last year that there was enough money to bump the payroll at the deadline if need be, which the previous regime would never have contemplated. And this offseason he's added, what, $15 million to the payroll? He was perfectly content to eat the contracts of people like Womack, White, Hammond, and Williams without so much as a comment, and then quietly spent millions on LaRue's going away card. No one from the front office opined that two $50,000 Rule 5 picks were "big investments," which certainly would have been the case a few years ago. Nearly every draft pick got signed without any fuss at all. And now we have a good, young core locked up for years to come.
If nothing else, these signings signal that Bob is a man of his word, and that the days of crying poor are gone. We can compete. Or, if we can't, the reason has nothing to do with money.
Makes all the routine posts.
What about those points? How do they fit into the plan?
Platoon partner with Hatte until Votto takes over full time.
Defensive replacement who has a knack for getting big hits.
Rule 5 pick, how do you know he will be on the roster all year long. What if he is and suceeds?
Oh you like LaRue but don't get Castro? LaRue sucked last year and had a bad attitude.
See my post about prospects. How do you know his suck?
Boo ground pitchers. It's his fault he had 1 SP when he came here?
Yes good for some longer term stability around these parts for once.
I hope part of his contract stipulated that he could no longer force his bad cover band/music onto the general public from here on out within the greater Cincinnati area. That would just be icing.
If you don't have a ton of great pitching depth in the minors (which the Reds don't), don't have a surplus of position player talent in the majors to trade (which the Reds don't), and don't have a great free agent market to spend your money in (which the Reds didn't), then you've got to play the odds on moves like this. It's a risk that Arroyo won't live up to his 2006 performance and there's a chance that the Reds bid against themselves and bought high, but its a risk worth taking when weighed against the odds of getting equivalent or better return on prospects who are completely unproven at the ML level.
Plus, there's a very real PR aspect to these two moves (locking in Harang, locking in Arroyo) -- its a signal to the fans that the team is serious about competing in the near future and a signal to players that Cincinnati takes care of it's own. It sends a message, to both free agents and players in the Reds system, that Cincinnati is playing to win and will spend the money to reward players who contribute to building a winning club. No more stories about trades for guys like Scott Rolen being nixed because the finances didn't work. These are the kinds of moves that change attitudes about franchises; they're the kinds of moves that I expect out of St. Louis, as opposed to the previous regimes that played straight of the Pittsburgh Pirates playbook.
Don't underestimate that aspect of this move either.
Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022
Drop off is probable, Arroyo rocked last year his Runs Saved Above Average is tied for 7th best in modern Reds history, if he drops to 1/2 that he'll have be where Harang was this year in RSAA.While it's not a popular opinion at the moment, I agree with this to a point. I think it's highly unlikely that Arroyo repeats his 2006 numbers and settles in at about leage average starter material for the remainder of his stay with the Reds,
Code:CINCINNATI REDS SEASON MODERN (1900-) GAMES STARTED >= 25 RSAA YEAR RSAA GS 1 Dolf Luque 1923 66 37 2 Bucky Walters 1939 58 36 3 Noodles Hahn 1902 47 36 4 Dolf Luque 1925 45 36 5 Jose Rijo 1993 44 36 6 Bucky Walters 1940 42 36 T7 Ewell Blackwell 1950 41 32 T7 Bronson Arroyo 2006 41 35 T9 Bob Purkey 1962 37 37 T9 Ewell Blackwell 1947 37 33 T9 Noodles Hahn 1904 37 34
I'll agree that his September ERA was impressive, and while I don't know who he pitched against at the end of the season off the top of my head, you're much more likely to find teams who have brought guys up when rosters expanded or have just plain packed it in. Many a September stars have turned into fools gold the following year.
I don't dispute that this type of deal can change attitudes about a franchise, but the fastest way to do that is to simply win. This isn't a move that made the Reds better as a team. Arroyo was going to be here for two more years at reasonable numbers and he couldn't really do anything about that. To me, spending $25 million on a guy who at the end of the deal likely won't be much more than a #4 starter is a high price to merely change perceptions.Plus, there's a very real PR aspect to these two moves (locking in Harang, locking in Arroyo) -- its a signal to the fans that the team is serious about competing in the near future and a signal to players that Cincinnati takes care of it's own. It sends a message, to both free agents and players in the Reds system, that Cincinnati is playing to win and will spend the money to reward players who contribute to building a winning club. No more stories about trades for guys like Scott Rolen being nixed because the finances didn't work. These are the kinds of moves that change attitudes about franchises; they're the kinds of moves that I expect out of St. Louis, as opposed to the previous regimes that played straight of the Pittsburgh Pirates playbook.
"It's still a long way to the top if we want to rock'n'roll, but at least they dumped the tuba player."
--M2
I think your point is that it did not make the Reds better as a team right now. But it certainly frees the front office up to focus their energy on other moves that will. And it gives them a longer window in which to do this. It did not directly make the team better, but it did indirectly, in opening the door. The only move that will make the Reds better RIGHT NOW is basically spending a lot of cash on a free agent or a trade. The free agent pool was weak and overpriced this year. Trades cannot be predicted and sometimes it takes time to hit on a good one.
I really don't see how anything wrong with this move whatsoever. Quite the opposite in fact. But I always thought Arroyo had a higher ceiling than he was showing in Pittsburgh and, at times, in Boston. I expect him to come down slightly from last year, but I'm much more in the camp that last year was more indicative of the pitcher he actually is than 2005.
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.
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